Mozilla CEO Mitchell Baker has called for community feedback on the future of the open source email client Thunderbird, with consideration to spinning Thunderbird off into a separate entity.
Mitchell wrote that Thunderbird is being dwarfed by “the enormous energy and community focused on the web, Firefox and the ecosystem around it” and that as a result, Thunderbird was not getting the attention it deserved.
Options floated by Mitchell include:
- a new non-profit organization analogous to the Mozilla Foundation – a Thunderbird foundation
- Create a new subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation for Thunderbird
- Thunderbird is released as a community project much like SeaMonkey, and a small independent services and consulting company is formed by the Thunderbird developers to continue development and care for Thunderbird users
Thunderbird has many fans. and yet what is a solid and mostly reliable program hasn’t grown at anywhere near to the rate Firefox has. Hopefully the change will see a renewed focus on brining new functionality to Thunderbird, changes that could well position Thunderbird as a fully featured future Outlook alternative.
I think this could be a very positive move ad bring it much more needed attention.
I’m a big fan of Thunderbird, but at the same time it is much easier for me to fire up Firefox and have a tab open for gmail.
I use Outlook (within the Office 2003 Professional Package) at my workplace. Since more than 2 years I started using thunderbird at home just out of curiosity, but it mostly has been a pain to use.
Bayesan Filtering in the Mozilla Suite never seems to work, search through messages is slow and there’s no out of the box calendar support.
The future set and reliability of Outlook is hard to overcome, multiuser calendar support and tight exchange-server integration are far to critical.
I prefer Microsoft Outlook. It is a great program. I don’t see myself using thunderbird, except on my linux box perhaps.
It is a great idea to spread your wings ,but they will have to manage the consequences that comes with going at it alone. Thunderbird might get less attention by itself. Always look at the pros and cons. If the cons outweigh the pros ,then you will certainly know what to do.
Stay where the traffic.
Those damn little Outlook pop up reminders have saved my ass many a time.
Probably it isn’t as popular because nowadays people tends to use webmail??? In a world where people asked to what they use their computer for answers “internet AND e-mail”, so in their mind, internet === web (equal by type and definition), a mail program isn’t as popular as a browser. Furthermore, a desktop mail program would need some system integration – which is a good part in Outlook / Apple Mail, not quite good in Thunderbird. It has a loooooong way to become a communication platform (or “productivity management” system).
The Thunderbird logo is pretty cool looking
Great ideal to spin Thunderbird off…..
Thunderbird is a great client but I think it has two things really against it’s potential growth.
1.) There is an ever-growing saturation of web-based clients. Many professionals are mobile and want access to their email from multiple locations and through different devices such as a mobile phone or PDA. And personally, I don’t like to take up valuable local hard drive space with email and attachments that can be stored cheaply (sometimes freely) on servers with data redundancy.
2.) The Thunderbird client is missing an integrated calendar. SunBird is available but really this two applications should be packaged together as a suite. It has become the fundamental norm to email clients including web-based clients. No one wants to click on an calendar event or invite to open a disparate application.
I don’t think Mozilla should spin off Thunderbird but rather consider a long-term plan of integrating its capabilities into the browser (separate tab). Email and Web Browsing go hand-in-hand. The name of the game right now is convergence. SeaMonkey has basically made little ripple in the marketplace either as a separate community entity.
I kind of hope it doesn’t grow the way Firefox did. I don’t really want the bloated feature set and gluttony of resources to make the jump to Thunderbird. I like the fact that it’s lean and quick.
I think it’s fine the way it is, considering what I use it for (checking email at work, where we don’t have Exchange or any Outlook licenses), but if they can make it sync to Windows Mobile phones, I’d probably start using it at home.
Thunderbird is already bloated and slow… the searching is just pitiful compared to Gmail, Outlook 2007 or the little-known Pocomail
Everyone uses a web browser – hence the popularity of Firefox.
Pretty much everyone uses webmail. Good for Firefox, bad for desktop email clients.
Those who don’t use webmail tend to use Outlook, because it hooks into Exchange – which is something Thunderbird doesn’t/can’t offer.
Suffice to say, I don’t think spinning off Thunderbird will help much. Fact is, the interest just isn’t there, and that’s the core of the problem.
The last thing I need from Thunderbird is it becoming an “Outlook clone” (except scheduling, such as with Lightning, is *very* useful for an email client). If you want to clone something, then clone the Notes interface–God, I’d love to have tabs instead of a bunch of windows for each little function. (Of course, that could mean rolling Tb into Firefox as an extension?) Actually, since I use Tb as more or less a better composer for my webmail, I think that’s where more energy should be focused–let my [Gmail, Yahoo!, etc] mail server handle the bulk of spam and such.
I think the future of a dedicated mail client isn’t promising enough to try spinning off Thunderbird, especially with such strong competition. Thunderbird also shouldn’t try to become a full-featured PIM. Then it’ll be in direct competition with Outlook and Evolution, both of which are light years ahead of the kind of functionality Thunder/Sunbird provide.
As many people here have mentioned, lots of people have moved exclusively to web-based email. I know I have. With multiple email accounts (university, personal, work, etc.), it’s convenient to route them all to my gmail for a 100% access, easy search, and no need to synchronize or take up space on my HD.
What Mozilla should do is implement a web-based email client as a plug-in for firefox. The open source email client must catch up with the direction things are going or it will eventually vanish into the hands of the giants (google, msn). It’s time for innovation, once again. I say use firefox for leverage into the web-based client industry.
All of these comments are valid. I would have to agree with merging Thunderbird into Firefox. For instance, during the installation of Firefox it goes into setting up your email accounts. That way when a person opens Firefox there is a default tab called “email” already open. This gives you a platform to force new technologies on to people in a way Microsoft does. Just think of the possibilities.
I disagree with the webmail-centric perspective; I’d rather have a top-notch client (I currently use the soon-to-be-sort-of-orphaned Eudora) that I can control with any given set of rules (mail from so-and-so is sent to my phone, other mail is automatically archived, some mail creates a sound alert (”You have mail from so-and-so”) so that I don’t waste my focus frequently looking at my inbox, other mail is automatically responded-to, all of this is sorted in dozens of folders automatically) than deal with a limited webmail interface that cannot currently interface with my environment on as rich and efficient a level.
Let’s be clear.
Mozilla isn’t “pondering” anything. This is clear cut move away from a “Mozilla” project and to a “Firefox” project. Thunderbird _will_ be spun off. The Mozilla Corporation and Foundation have been Firefox-focused for at least two years now; Thunderbird is dead weight to them. The arguments Mitchell has given in her post and in the comments of that post are nothing short of bull shit. The truth is, she can’t make it work because she doesn’t care to. Mozilla as a whole is being run as a business, not as an open source project. There will come a time in the not-to-distant future where Firefox won’t earn the revenue that it does now. When that happens, projects like Thunderbird are the ones that will keep Mozilla afloat… if they’re still around. I wonder how much money is just sitting in the bank now instead of being used for the “public benefit”.
If you look close enough, Duncan and Mike (Arrington), you’ll see this once vibrant, open source community is now killing itself off, piece by piece. You’d be wise to do a detailed post on the changes that are being made.
Here is my thoughts:
I uninstalled thunderbird after I did not open it for many months. Gmail and Google Business Solutions (allowing domain names to use gmail) has ended my general need for some program on my computer.
The only time I might need something on my computer is when I am traveling with a laptop and no net connection … oh yeah, google gears might eliminate that need for a program on my comp soonish.
This is nothing more than a nice way to spin the underlying fact, which is that this is the EOL of Thunderbird.
A spin-off can be a mechanism to allow a group with greater ideas about how to exploit some assets to step in, but in an open source project, there is already very little blocking such a group from stepping in.
The more likely explanation is that Mozilla wants to integrate with Google’s services, and Thunderbird would complicate that.
Thunderbird is a great app. I use it on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
I switch Outlook/Outlook Express users to it at least once a week and I can’t stand Apple Mail (hello lets get some decent IMAP support?).
It would be a shame to see Mozilla spin off T-bird, what they should do is put even more money and effort behind it. Thunderbird is at the same place (as far as adoption) that Firefox was years ago, lets rinse and repeat the success of Firefox rather than turn our back to a challenge.
Is it me or does it seem like it would take more effort to spin it off rather than commit some resources to it. With structuring, funding, and staffing of a whole new foundation. But I agree with some of the above just allocate the resources to it.
For now It meets my needs although if the lighting plug in could get fleshed out a little more that would make my day.
Spinning off seems like a strange decision….Then again, I’m no business tycoon. I use Microsoft Outlook for work and Mozilla Thunderbird for home. I think Thunderbird is a good client, but with an earlier commenter agree that it needs a calendaring application. I really enjoy the Calgoo calendaring app. and have been pushing them to include add-in functionality with Thunderbird, but thus far it hasn’t happened. Sunbird is good, but last I checked still too beta.
I have to agree that the markets are widely different. Everyone needs a web browser, but a web browser oftentimes provides email. Personally, I like having my email offline so I can read it whenever I want as well as compose emails. Perhaps the solution is an RIA? Something about Thunderbird just doesn’t say, “Hey, I’m so hot you gotta have me.” Like Firefox once did (it doesn’t quite say it anymore, Microsoft is catching up).
well they don’t want it, nor do they want to put effort into it, because it isn’t a money maker like what Firefox is
After a steady personal conversion to Gmail I finally dumped Thunderbird last week. As a Linux user, the final clincher was the ability for Google Desktop to create an offline index of my Gmail account so that I now have an offline backup of Gmail without having to pull via POP mail into Thunderbird.
Major problems of Thunderbird include:
1. It’s slow
2. Search function is pathetic
3. Mail and Calendar go hand-in-hand, and after all these years Thunderbird still does not have decent Calendar support
4. Not one of my clients are interested in switching to Thunderbird because it is not a viable replacement for Microsoft Outlook (whereas many are active users of Firefox)
The writing is on the wall – Thunderbird is rushing towards becoming a niche product. Smart move by the Mozilla Foundation.
Wow – this is becoming really weird. Nine months ago, Qualcomm shed Eudora with the story being (as reported by mozillaZine)…
“The Mozilla Foundation and Qualcomm have announced that future versions of the Eudora mail client will be based on Mozilla Thunderbird.”
“Thunderbird and Eudora will remain separate products…”
“The mission to migrate Eudora to a Thunderbird-based application will be known as the Penelope project.”
Much of the sentiment above has Thunderbird as being dumped. And Mitchell’s posting failed to even mention Eudora/Penelope. I have to say that it sure does not feel like forward motion for any of these mail clients.
Written as an increasingly sad user of Eudora from the very early days.
Spin it off? I say kill it.
Email is for old people. Anyone that still uses email for personal textual communications is an anachronistic waste of air and water. Email is only useful for business crap (receipts when shopping, employees that “don’t get text messaging”, etc…).
Stop using email and end 95% of the Spam problem (think of what we could do with the extra non-Spam bandwidth!?!).
Am I the only one who uses Thunderbird for RSS? I know its functionality is lacking in many ways, but I’m addicted to having my email and RSS feeds in one place. The beauty of Tbird for RSS is that it displays the originating web page in the email window, so you can always see the full post (instead of the short chunk you usually get with a feed). I’ve tried other feed readers but nothing does it for me.
I’m a Thunderbird fanatic. It would be really depressing for me if they let it wither and become a tiny niche product.
Thunderbird project is a fault. This client is so slooow compared to other. I use TheBat mail for almost 9 years (switched from Eudora in 1998) and I never saw better email client than TheBat. I have no idea why there is so many fans of Mozila products (FF and TB) – there is much better alternative for both, for years! Yes, TheBat is not free, but $30-40 is good price for a top product…
As it has been mentioned by @Frank Daley, there is still a real need for local backup of WebMails.
As soon as all WebMails are not offering local backups, clients such as Thunderbird will be needed.
I personally use Thunderbird (with PGP encryption extension) to backup my Hushmail accounts and my Gmail accounts…
I’ve tried Thunderbird a few years ago, and somehow I wasn’t impressed. I use Outlook Express, and am always worried about viruses passed around in Outlook Express’ address book.
The reason Thunderbird hasn’t really taken off would no doubt be users aren’t happy with it. No other reason…
“changes that could well position Thunderbird as a fully featured future Outlook alternative.”
If you want an Outlook clone, there’s already Evolution. Why would anyone need two Outlook clones?
PIMs aren’t the be-all and end-all. Is there no room for a fast, light, not-resource-intensive standalone email client?
In any case, even if that is the Thunderbird developers’ aim they’re years away from that. Good grief, Thunderbird hasn’t even got a decent address book: it can’t import vCards, can’t store images, and can’t sync with a portable device. So let’s not talk about running before we can walk.
The only reason behind TB’s growth (albeit small compared to FF) is that it’s standing on shoulders of its big sibling Firefox.
Separating TB operations into a standalone entity would only further reduce the growth.
Many many email clients ceased development in the last few years, despite some of them being relatively popular. It’s tough market.
I have tested Thunderbird few times, but to me my beloved Pocomail is still playing two leagues higher.
Would be great to have a feature on outlook (or whatever other) where one can drag and drop mail into hard drive folders and have them instantly converted to either text or html file.
Thunderbird has a fatal flaw: neither its contact list, nor its settings, are centralized. This is a huge hassle for people who use more than one computer (an increasing share of the users); you never know whether that contact is there or not – and good luck keeping the settings in synch.
Thunderbird has also other silly features, e.g., associating with a thread the time of the _first_ message rather than the one of the _last_.
Fact is, even pine is better than Thunderbird; way faster, and you can centralize both contact list and settings.
Thunderbird is headed to extinction, and I won’t regret it…
I hate web mail clients. They are ad heavy and cluttered. Outlook gives me the control I want in terms of rules, spam, searching/sorting and multiple accounts.
using an exchange server makes it pretty top notch.
I have to accept that it is a powerful email application but in terms of usability and features it is far far behind outlook.
-Rafiq
http://rafiq.us