An ongoing investigation by the FBI into gambling in Second Life is believed to be directly related to Linden Lab’s sudden decision to ban all forms of gambling on Second Life.
The FBI investigation commenced in April and was considering the legality of online gambling within the virtual world. The US Government prohibits most forms of online gambling.
It was unclear at the time of writing whether the FBI would take the matter further, including the possible arrest of Linden Lab directors or the prosecution of individual users.
Casinos and gambling have been a prominent part of the Second Life metaverse over the last 2-3 years. Linden Lab will take a financial hit from the decision as casino owners cancel virtual land ownership agreements; top tier casinos contribute large sums in monthly fees to Linden Lab.
I want them to start selling drugs in there that distort your screen and delay your reaction to keypresses. As if these ‘vice’ laws aren’t all bogus enough for the real world, I just want to see some FBI tool having to stop someone from getting a virtual high at some point.
When laws are unclear - what good does it do to arrest someone. It would go through years of trials and appeals and cost millions.
If there is ambiquity, legislation should address it immediately. THEN, the FBI should investigate only if LAWS were broken or if there is suspicion by the Attorney General’s office.
They extended invites to the FBI to investigate them - so they may be shutting down to avoid the extreme cost and years of litigation in case a director or prosecutor decides to be adventurous.
What say does the FBI have in the affairs of a Swedish company?
“What say does the FBI have in the affairs of a Swedish company?”
Linden Labs’ corporate offices and servers are located in San Francisco.
The US gambling laws are stupid. Surely banning Gambling is the state getting involved what you do with your personal finances. I think in years to come US laws will force lots of internet companies simply to stop trading there.
Great news!
The SL gambling locations are run like you would run an online gambling site. Deceptively and of course horribly built.
They are also always empty…
@sean
If they’re empty, perfect, what’s the reason for the FBI?
And if they were full, it’d be full of voluntary morons or people willing to spend some money to have fun, much like people who play state-run games or in Indian casinos.
The whole thing, the entire babysitter mentality, is just so stale.
@Darren
You’re totally right, except for the ‘years to come’ part. It’s been happening for a few years now. We’re simply not the most attractive place to have an IPO anymore, and there are stories in Hong Kong and London both about how delighted they are to pick up our financial market slack until we wake up to reality.
Over-regulation and criminal liability for business actions are a great way to drive people to do business elsewhere. Legislators may think they just need to ‘finesse’ Sarbanes-Oxley, what they really need to do is spend an entire session repealing their crappy laws instead of writing any new ones.
Arrest them all I say.
Is there any evidence that this involves the FBI, rather than e.g. Second Life wanting to clean up its image? Note also Valleywag’s earlier post:
http://valleywag.com/tech/spin.....249707.php
“Any controversy, over illegal gambling or copyright infringement, creates the impression that Second Life is a vibrant alternative society, and economy. Which it’s not. The FBI probably isn’t making an issue out of virtual-world gambling, because the casinos are so empty (see picture). There are more convenient ways to gamble online. For Linden Lab, better a synthetic scandal, tailormade for the press, than the depressingly bare reality”
Good. Casinos are a blight in SL and generally are run by crooks anyway.
@gettit - they do sell virtual drugs.
it cracks me up whenever I see them.
I guess it’s more about the problem of money laundering rather than the occasional gambling by users…
I’ve found it interesting how those who are so enamoured with “virtual worlds” absolutely believe that they are in fact real and separate from the real world. State, Federal and International laws do all apply if you’re in Las Vegas gambling with casino chips or Second Life gambling with Linden dollars… because at some point those chips and Lindens can be turned back into cold hard cash. Until Linden Labs removes their web servers from U.S. soil, they obligated to honor our laws (just like Entropia Universe has to follow the laws of Sweden). I personally beleive that Linden Labs should have been required to register as a financial institution when they started the Linden exchange. If Second Life just took your money, converted them to Linden Dollars and then didn’t allow you to turn them back into cash, then they would be in the clear… at least as far as gambling laws are concerned!
When you write : “top tier casinos contribute large sums in monthly fees to Linden Lab” or “casinos and gambling have been a prominent part of the Second Life metaverse” - do you have quantitative data to justify these statements ?
As a “resident” of Second Life for a great deal of time, and a dealer at one of these top tier casinos, I have a slightly different perspective.
Our casino was almost always full. The average person won roughly 2500 Linden dollars, or $10 USD from playing a tournament game. The monthly fees spoken of are the land ownership fees. The larger plot of land you own, the larger your monthly land fee was. The biggest casinos (including ours) paid over $125/month to Linden Labs in U.S. Currency. There are around two dozen large casinos, with this rate or higher land use fees. This will give Linden Labs a net loss of approximately $40000 yearly.
This ban was brought upon us suddenly, and without warning. The few that dare to defy it are being shut down forcefully as I type this. Many casino owners are equalling this to theft, and they’re not wrong.
There is only one kind of poker table any self respecting casino uses. It costs $25000 in the Linden currency, which, at the current “exchange rate” equals roughly $100 USD. The smallest of casinos own three poker tables. The largest own 15 or more.
The biggest issue, though, is the fact that Linden Labs itself does not recognize it’s virtual currency as a legitimate currency. As stated in the Terms of Service, it is a digital credit, which would be equated to be an item. When one cashes out on these digital credits, they are selling items back to Linden Labs, just as you might sell an e-book or a subscription to an online magazine. It’s not an item you can hold in your hand, but it exists online.
The current estimate is that Second Life will lose 5,000 active residents due to this ban. Casinos were easily the second largest provider of the Second Life economy. If gambling is permanently shut down, what could come next but the adult content, which is the biggest movement of these digital credits. If adult content is gone.. so is almost all of Second Life.
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http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/slgaming
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GO ON THIS SITE AND JOIN THE PETITION BOUT THIS !!!
sarcasm
I’m glad the FBI has solved the whole terrorism problem and can now protect us from other threats.
When does the Bin Laden trial start anyways?
/sarcasm
Interesting. Maybe they should take a Moola like approach and use advertising to support the games rather than user cash? This avoids the whole gambling problem…but still allows companies to make money and users to win money.
This move has a serious knock on effect to the whole game. The casinos offered camping, paid for out of gambling profits…this brought people there.
The footfall brought the stores there, the rentals reimbursed the casino for camping and payouts.
People need money to buy land and goods when they dont want to raid there own bank accounts.
Remove casinos, people go elsewhere (if places exist now) stores then close and rentals drop. People try and off load the vast land parcels used for casinos then land prices drop like stones.
People who have spent large amounts joining SL. buying land trying to create businesses have seen their efforts and investment seriously devalued overnight with no compensation.
The danger is they sell off small divided parcels for ad farms and the whole SL experience is spoilt.
Linden Labs should set up away from USA or die.
and yes you can buy drugs in SL which warp your inworld view….so i have seen but i didn’t inhale
I think Linden Labs will be able to generate alot more organizational and educational funds now that gambling is gone. I’ve had personal experience of non-profits and other public sector as well as private entities not wanting to invest because of the appearance of casino life.
I know LL will lose alot on the onset, but if they hang tight, alot more organizations will be willing to invest and they can “grow” their business in a new direction.
@ Erik:
How true. You would think they would have something better to do with their time!
@ SL Newcomer:
For a newbie, you’re very perceptive. Thanks for filling in all the gaps in my argument that I meant to. Second Life is going to hell in a handbasket unless they come up with a compromise for gambling.
@ SL Educator:
The problem with bringing in all these “wholesome” groups is that will push away Second Life’s current clientèle. Yes, it might bring in groups that will, in the beginning, generate some revenue for Linden Labs, but in the long run, they’ll lose a lot of residents, because it will make people see it as turning into another Teen grid. Second Life, in theory, is a place where you can do anything that you want to do in your “First Life”, but can’t, for whatever reason. It’s full of sex and debauchery and that’s what attracts people to it.
Around the big deal shutting down casinos, i agree with SL Newcomer but there is more, how about the backend of casinos, the people making the games, i usually make alot on games i create for casino’s, used to have a big land plot to advertise and have my office on, but with this sudden shutdown, i lose ALOT of income, i closed my office and cancelled my land rent. income wich was legit, there is nothing wrong with making casino games, but with this ban, me and others like me are affected and will follow the owners of casinos. close up and take your last pennies, wich is what i will do until i can reestablish my target for other projects, maybe i should make guns, theyre banned in some states too if im correct, but hey everyone has them these days.
@micheal
im in the same situation as you
i spent 14 hours a day for a year making games learning the lsl language
for a legitimate business selling games to casino owners..
as listed in the sugested occupations for new comers become a casino operator was on the sl website until 2 days after the ban.
i read this list of busineses sugested by linden see casino operator in there think hey these casino operators need games
spend all my time makeing games setting up shop and then bang a years work not worth absolutly nothing. the way i see it linden owe me a years wages at the minimum after all it was their sugestion to have casino’s and casinos needed games. what can i say this is BS its like i have just been fired and not paid for the last year of hard work. you cant even download the games that have been made to store on your own pc for later use.
although the games i made i am the legal owner of them i cannot have them go figure…
Linden you owe all use creators big time i wait to see wich one of us has the resources to take you to court. feel free to message me in game shane nielson… thanx for your time if you are reading this.
I can’t believe how many people play second life. I gave it a try for several hours trying to figure it out. The gambling was the only thing remotely entertaining. What are people in second life going to do with their time now?
Simple point to make here….
Many argue that you can not compare the sale of prostitution aka, escorts in Second Life to gambling because the gambling is REAL while the sex is not real.
Well, here is my problem with that theory….
THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT BAN THE SALE OF PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES
Now, for anyone that has taken a walk or two through SL, you know that no ALL of the pornographic imagery is in the “cartoon” form…. There are REAL pictures of women being “tied & gagged”, “anal sex” and the list goes on.
So yes, I would REALLY like to know why a company based in the USA, where gambling is legal but hookers are not, has banned gambling but allows the sale of sex/sexual imagery to continue.
SL seriously needs to rethink this move. They need to verify ages for gambling & “mature” sims and stop taking the easy way out. I also think that they need to give a lower price for land that is purchased as PG rated to promote a little more creativity and a little less animal sex…..
Add some parental controls, add a discount for buying PG rated areas, add an age verification (via credit card on file) to access mature areas.
And stop being idiots, seriously…. People sell items from WOW, Lineage II and other assorted games as well. Does this make ALL in “game money” = real life money???? Perhaps we should ban ALL online games from having any game of chance that provides “in game money” return???? I mean people might sell the money for real money and then, oh no it is also gambling!
w/e the whole thing is ridiculous.
Just wondering when we let the Taliban determine what we can and cannot do with th money we make and OWN here in the land of the free and the brave. I will spend it anywherethefuck I want, no matter what…no question.