The Ghost Of Zuckerberg’s Past May Haunt Facebook IPO

Web 2.0 is great. But it seems Money 2.0 is greater. Today, We build to get rich quick but our predecessors built and inveted to make the world a better place.

Where would be today if Edison gave up after his 1000th try to build a better light bulb?

The Challege:
Built something that could help the 38 million people starving in Africa.

This is someone wanting some money, there is no way they can stop a company the size as facebook at this stage.

This is one ghost you dont want to have

It can’t stop it but………!!!!!!

That’s odd… archive.org doesn’t have anything for HarvardConnect.com, and connectu.com has been in it’s current form since 2004.

My past experience is that when you hire coders without a written contract, they will always try to find a way to use the code they wrote for a specific project. Whether it’s for profit or not isnt the point. It will be interesting to see the contents of the e-mails the plaintiffs say they have. Just remember, emails were a major point in the government’s case against Microsoft, and how big are they? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Interesting “Microsoft” twist if I do say so.

BTW… is that a ghost, or a Klansman? Excellent job on the graphics!

That sucks. Seems inevitable for every site that makes it big though

lawrence, Robert
a ghost… don’t klansman have pointy hats?

Not sure about the specifics of this situation, but if there is no contract is it fair game to re-apply stuff you have learned/help develop at other companies? Is it more of a morale issue or a legal issue, since without a contract I would assume he has no legal obligation to connectU?

Sounds like a lot of BS! If you’re a entrepreneurial techie at any uni, you always have folks coming to you with “ideas” and thinking that once you develop the idea and it’s making money, they own everything.

Tube light moment: it doesn’t work that way!

If you come to me with an idea and I develop it, it’s *my* property absent of any sort of agreement. It’s one of the funniest things on any campus…all these cute friends coming to you with ideas thinking it’s their ticket to cloud nine. Somewhere they missed the idea that ideas mean crap–it’s a implementation damn it.

Intellectual property cases are hard to prove without any kind of contract or direct access to the codebase. It begs the question how do these people know what Facebook’s original code looked like? You can’t tell by looking at the page. So this sounds like a really garbage case to bring up.

The strange part is that if this case really were garbage, it wouldn’t have persisted this long.

Facebook should settle this out of court.

A very wise man once told me - if it is not legal, moral and ethical - I want to part of it.

In the absence of a contract the coder owns the code. Doesn’t even matter if he was paid or not. If you don’t get him to sign over the rights then he owns his creation. I think this concept has been hammered into just about everyone in the business world hasn’t it? Employment agreements all have the clauses where you sign over rights to everything you do.

That is interesting, it’s a shame some people can be this way. Innovate your own stuff people, not someone else’s

Lol Love the graphic

The problem here is Zuck admitted he was hired. From what I understand about contract law, the contract is inferred, to a point. Proving the source code will be difficult, however, ‘ for hire’ development is pretty much standard in every state contract law. If I hire someone to develope an idea I have, and even file for provisional patent, there is a method of me still owning that patent even tho the work was done by someone else ” for hire”. Again, the devil is in the details of those emails. Can you say close to a billion for compensation? No one will ever know the exact details of payout if this is settled out of court. Zuck would to save ‘ FACE’ and cover his ass.

Speaking of IPO, any ideas as to who will underwrite?

That graphic is the best part of this article…lol

@21, it doesn’t matter if the current iteration of facebook is entirely different code-wise than the (allegedly) ripped-off original. If the current version and business of facebook is the fruit of a poisonous tree, it’s all subject to being turned over to the plaintiffs if they win. Here’s an example: let’s say I give you 200k to buy House A on my behalf. Before you do that, you buy House B and quickly flip it for a 50k profit, and then you buy House A like I instructed you to. If I found out about the 50k profit from House B, a court would award it to me.

Basically, if he used code that belonged to the plaintiffs, the derivative business is constructively theirs. And that’s what they argue in their suit.

from connectU’s “about us” page:

“Over the course of development, we’ve had our ups and downs. We’ve cycled through several programmers, even one who stole our ideas to create a competing site, without informing us of his intentions. But we’ve been troopers. At first we were devastated and climbed into a bottle of Jack Daniels for a bit, but eventually emerged with a bad headache and renewed optimism. We weren’t going to lie down and get walked over like this. “

This one’s gonna hurt. If he loses i bet u he will kill himself. Oh humanity -_-

(to the above) Ouch. Looks like something has left a bad taste in their mouthes.

They should have had stronger contracts and kept tabs on their programmers. Plenty of programmers will “take” code, especially if they see value in doing so.

Code revisions will save Mark Z and Facebook here, you can’t enforce or prove that.

Give them their pound of flesh and move on. These clowns could never have made the “code” into what Zuckerberg has made it.

If he stole the code and the business plan, then the original creators deserve compensation. There’s no question about it!

I would say the stolen code, if any, would only play a very small part in Facebook’s success. Otherwise, why isn’t ConnectU reading to file an IPO of its own if their code is so valuable? Not to mention that the current code base is most likely very different. Frankly, there is very little innovative or amazing code in all these Web 2.0 apps. The value of these apps is somewhere else, not so much in the code, because the latter is easily replicable. So ultimately, they may get something out of it but not that much.

Unlikely to have much impact imho. I wonder who can afford the bigger lawyers?? Hmm, let me think!

Come on Duncan, you have to admit that graphic is pretty funny

Why do those … want the site to be closed ?

Mark has very little chance. “Just because you can, does not mean you should”. That was the argument used by a lot of lawyers prosecuting ethics laws for example, most of Enron’s case was based on ethics since there was very little documentation.

No matter how you look at it, ethically Mark is screwed. The best chance, is settle out of court. For a judge, Facebook means nothing and all you need is an injunction and Facebook will be temporarily shut down. Once this case gets publicity, Facebook will suffer. And they will not be able to file IPO with this pending case.

Zuckerberg has enough problems of his own without these talks of a lawsuit. I watched him at F8 and the guy talks and moves like he is from outerspace. No amount of money could ever help this freak out in life.

-1daysports.com

haah, jason, i agree with you, i thought exactly the same thing, poor zuckerburg

Make Tradesecret or create open source GPL facebook.

I saw the F8 video online and didn’t think much of the guy too. At least I didn’t get any sense of leadership nor self confidence. What i got was a mixture of arrogance and lack of self confidence - may sound stupid but that’s the impression I got. Now to be fair, it is he the one who deserves the credit for Facebook ’s success and not the other party. Code is just a part of the success recity; Vision if not equal, is perhaps more of a factor behind Facebook’s success. History can attest to it: Wozniak demoing a prototype to his boss at HP, Paul Allan buying an OS for 50k from a guy who thought it had no potential …

PeopleSoft founder Dave Duffield went through the same thing. Someone claimed that he had stolen the source code ……..needless to say the lawsuit was thrown out and he became a billionaire.
These guys just want a piece of the pie. They will settle out of court for X shares each in Facebook.

That graphic/pic is easily the best part of the article. Didn’t even think of the KKK as another guy on here commented, but now that he mentioned it, I can’t but not see it. Love it. Very funny.

Doesn’t Zuckerberg look like “Boy meets world” star Ben Savage in this picture?

Jason,

I was thinking of the same thing. I am not sure how I would react if I were to work under Zuckerberg. Hmmm, my boss talks like a robot. But then again, this kid did not have much of a college life to make improvements. He really needs speech therapy. I am suprised that no one brought it up. Or probably he is working on it.

I think this news will help the IPO. Many bankers prefer heartless, talentless, and ethically-challenged overachievers to run thier companies.

It’s another case of someone making their old money the old fasioned way- stealing it.

Jason and everyone else making fun of Zuckerberg,

You are all jealous losers! If you had 1% of his IQ, you would have 1% of his money.

uh, shouldn’t they be more concerned about the patents awarded to friendster?

There is absolutely no merit to this case, in my opinion. Didn’t even deserve a mention in my Inside Facebook book. An incendiary post, but nothing will come of this besides a small out-of-court settlement, basically FB paying them off not to create any more annoyance.

Karel

Dave @ 43, are you Mark’s representation? If so, Mark may be headed to 1% of Mark’s money.

mike - aren’t you a corporate lawyer?

- couldn’t you offer some ip lawyer advice?

typical shit from ex employers who think they own you. everyone is a competitor and in this game the winner is the one on the battle field; courts are only there so the parasites in the legal world can somehow legitimize rape of victims and victors.

in this case the victim is facebook

Dave,

First of all, what is Mark’s IQ?

Second, it does not take any high IQ individual to come up with a site like Facebook. It is making good use of the opportunity at that time that made Facebook. Good business skills helps out too but nowadays with consultants and advisors you don’t even need that. You need to make sure you make good decision based on the advise or consultation given.

Third. Are you currently working at Facebook?

Great title! Mine sucks now. hahaha..

Rex

Meh. I hear about things like this all the time. Wasn’t it that Bill Gates took somebody else’s idea or something with Microsoft?

I can’t see it really having any legs. At the most, a settlement or something.

I wouldn’t get too hyped up over Facebook, guys. It’s just the It Girl at the moment.

This is similar to my experience.

I got accepted by a TV station as a Graphic Designer and they trained me as junior Video Editor. I desperately responded to their job offer since i needed something to eat. Still i applied to another company that do webdesign, video editing, and got hired.

The TV station accused me of stealing their videos and used it as my own portfolio, but i did not. I got hired as a webdesigner, and i presented webdesign portfolio.

Zuckerberg may have copied a few lines in the beginning. But i dont it’s the same now.

Can they prove this?

Patricia 51:

Bill Gates didn’t steal, he rightfully paid for it. He purchased DOS from Seattle Computer Products, licensed it to IBM, retained the rights so he can license it to IBM’s competitor, and made a lot of money with it.

Jean 29:
Without code there is no product. Making money is not always about the product. What people forget is that when Zuckerberg was working with connectU, he actively stalled them. He promised to deliver code for them, which he never did. In the mean time, he made Facebook, and laucnhed before connectU and gained the first movers advantage for the college social network scene.
Many people attribute FB’s success with the first movers advantage, as it certainly was not the code or the interface because it sucked.

Zuckerberg didn’t have much of a development team when he first started. ConnectU did. If you want to believe that Zuckerberg was able to create a social network, launch before connectU (even though he started after connectU), without a little help (i.e. stolen code) then go ahead…but the courts will decide that.

It is quite interesting to see the reaction to this guy (with whom I have absolutely no connection whatsoever). So he is *supposedly* a poor speaker who exhibits little confidence and seems to be arrogant (probably as a result of the former) and the conclusion is… that he should not be allowed to pursue his dream? This is a poor outlook on life. If he is indeed all these things, then he should be commanded for pursuing his dream in spite of it all. If it was all about money, he would have sold the company a long time ago and retired with a billion dollars. And I can’t imagine he is thinking about becoming the richest man in the world, which is quite unlikely to happen since Facebook’s technology is so replicable and Web customers are so fickle (Google is a different case: access and gratification are instant, browser integration is fairly pervasive, and no competition is substantially better). Moreover, if he won’t sell out, I assume that he is preparing for the inevitable onslaught of competing social networks by the “majors”. There is still much to be done in that area…

I was at MIT when all this went down and knew people involved (on both sides). The bottom line is that Mark definitely “stole” the idea and probably borrowed the code too. He admitted in articles in the Harvard Crimson that he was hired and worked for the ConnectU team. Someone is bankrolling this lawsuit… someone thinks there is a payoff here.

“probably borrowed the code too” = borrowed some code, probably a few thousand lines max. It wasn’t much but that’s the whole fruit of the poisonous tree concept.

@Foley:
I have no idea whether he stole or not, stalled or not, and otherwise (only he and the ConnectU guys know) but, as you say, the courts will decide. Of course there is no product without code, but while you can easily hire engineers to write code that is good enough, you can’t easily hire a leader to develop and execute on a vision.

do u think they are able to back it up, where the proof?

facebook?? has anyone heard of this new network by the name of peekamo??????????

“Moreover, if he won’t sell out, I assume that he is preparing for the inevitable onslaught of competing social networks by the “majors”. There is still much to be done in that area…”

Yeah, like MSN spaces, Yahoo 360 and Google Orkut? I think the onslaught is over and Facebook won. They have a very unique product and extremely loyal users. Facebook doesn’t get the credit it deserves, I can’t see anything overtaking it soon.

I met the founders of connectu.com in 2004 and they told me all about Zuckerberg working for them, stalling the project then suddenly launching thefacebook.com. I hope he gets his just desserts and they get considerable compensation or facebook shutdown. What goes around comes around.

@Ira:
True, all these other social networks are currently lame, but let’s see where we are two years from now… If Facebook won’t sell out or partner in some way, I doubt the other guys are gonna say “oh, okay, let’s not do anything with social networks then, since Facebook won’t play with us… and let’s not fix our crappy current offerings, especially since social networks are the hot thing right now and, in fact, forever… let’s just give up”. Also, Facebook customers cannot be called extremely loyal until after very compelling competition emerges. Yet I agree that it is currently the best out there and they deserve kudos for that achievement.

Call me jealous, but I figure anyone who’s gotten as far as he has at the age that he is must have stepped on a few heads to get to the top. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this were true but I guess history is written by the victors.

Hopefully Facebook won’t be shut down, its a wonderful service.

Visions are very powerful, but without implementation…

Implementation is very powerful, but without a vision…

One difference:
You can’t steal an “implementation”.

Therefore, if you are an inventor, shut up about your ideas until you can implement them, and bind everyone you hire to secrecy by waving expensive lawyers at them.

This is the opposite of open source, but this case casts us all out of the Garden for sure.

- Srini

Genius is often misunderstood. Zuckerberg is a genius. You allow and expect genius to be exceptional. So what if he speaks like a robot, hail robot speak.

Those Google guys are a bit out there as well. Cuban and the Youtube guys are a little out scrambled too.

Gates seems relatively normal as does Woz and Jobs.

I think these guys have a case. Theft is a pretty big deal.

why is it that zuckerberg stopped using the line ” a mark zuckerberg production” at the bottom of facebooks home page could it possibly be that he realizes that the production of this 6 billion dollar website was not his idea? I am not amazed it has lasted this long because each side has their own weapon for zuckerberb, money. For the winklevoss twins proof along with what i believe is the truth. this could easiely go either way and it would probably be best to settle out side of court for facebooks image, but it will be interesting to see what the upcoming court date brings

i bet you it’s a case of these guys walked into a dorm room, asked him what he was doing, then determined that that’s enough to consider themselves co-founders.

it happens everyday. people come up with ideas, but only one person in the group has the wherewithal to forge ahead. then when the lone person strikes gold, the others come waltzing in trying to get their slice of the pie.

if you think you don’t have any relatives, for example, win the lottery.

mong other things, facebook and connectU are hardly ‘original’ ideas, which I think makes the theft issue a more complicated one.

that Zuckerberg undertook similar work for them is unfortunate, but it doesn’t actually prove anything within itself- er, zietgeist anyone?

ethically it may not be kosher, but from a legal standpoint I wonder much actually holds up.

finally: to suggest that this case is more valid because it began when facebook was not actually making a bunch of money doesn’t hold a lot of water- at that point in time the potential for growth and profits was pretty high

Intellectual property is hot property and one should defend it as such. if ConnectU was careless about their big idea, the fault lies in their yard. I’m not condoning any sort of theory-theft (if that is indeed the case) but if you’re a developer of ideas, I’d suggest you read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Edison-i.....0756626021.

On a slighlty different note, this also makes for interesting reading: http://blog.ericgoldman.org/ar....._lawsu.htm

Good luck.