June 19, 2007

New Site “Jumps” Into The Application Creation Space

Michael Arrington

41 comments »

Just over a year ago DabbleDB launched, allowing people to create quick database driven applications with very few programming skills. Since then we’ve seen Zoho Creator, WyaWorks and Coghead launch their own competing applications. Salesforce AppExchange is arguably also a competitor, as are a number of other build-your-own-apps like Yahoo Pipes, Teqlo and Microsoft Popfly.

This is a crowded space, and there’s a reason for it. These tools let non-developers create useful and otherwise expensive applications for busineses that can be accessed directly or via the intranet. They can also be tailored to an infinite degree, giving companies more flexibility with off the shelf stuff. Most of these tools also allow for simple web application building as well, from simple web forms to more complicated, interactive applications.

LongJump, which launches today, is the newest entrant. The new service is a spinoff of an already profitable business, Relationals, which was founded in 2003. The founder, 37 year old Pankaj Malviya, says the company needs no additional funding in the near future.

LongJump is focused on letting people create applications without any programming skills whatsoever - something Coghead is also striving for. In a demo yesterday I watched Malviya create a couple of applications very quickly, including a highly customized shared contact and calendar resource for a business.

LongJump is also approaching their community in a realy smart way - like Ning, applications can be shared with other LongJump users, cloned, and customized. Sharing is optional, and all business data is stripped out and replaced with sample data. But in the near future users will be able to build on what others have created, giving LongJump a nice library of sample applications.

The ease of use combined with the community sharing features are really thoughtful additions to the product. We’ll check back in with them in a couple of months and see how the library of applications is coming along.

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  1. Brian Hoffman

    I think it’s great and all that we want non-developers to be able to build robust, powerful online applications and not break a sweat. My spin on this though is *why* do we want to do this? Why do we want non-developers creating applications that lots of people will use? We don’t see articles on Digg like “Zoober launches Spleen Removal kit that Average Joe can use!” I think for a reason. Personally, if GMail was written by my sister using a tool like this one, I wouldn’t expect it to work very well. I would love to see some hard stats on how many people actually have created successful apps using these tools.

  2. Holy Crap!

    The founder, 37 year old Pankaj Malviya, says the company needs no additional funding in the near future.

    Damn…. I still huge fan. This guy is next rocky. Can he beat million dollar coghead?

    Not bad for web 2.0 startup. This is what I call it “Web 2.0″

  3. Sorry for Coghead...

    I’m going for LongJump. I want to start from the beginning.

  4. Coral

    “LongJump is focused on letting people create applications without any programming skills whatsoever”

    That’s the deciding factor for me - where do I sign?

    “Please provide the following information and we will update you on all the latest information as we get closer to our beta launch.”

    Hmmm… Not quite ready, yet?

    Regards,
    Coral

  5. George

    ok so now we want those who are not “developers” to develop applications?? I wonder if someone will wake up and create a web based solution for ACTUAL developers.. where they can code the solution along with drag and drop? hmm me guesses dreamweaver on web?

  6. Adrian keys

    Would think all of the Tech savvy people are already on the Net. The majority of new users will need the help and collaboration.

    I say LongJump definitely has legs!

  7. Bill

    The technology is cool but I wonder whether these companies are going in with the right angle…

    I believe it would be better to simply provide a solution that enables normal non-technical users to manage and share data and let that sort of ‘application’ evolve to powerful web apps… By presenting your company as a web-app platform you are too complex for normal end users and probably too simple for developers…

    I like where cebase is going with their product. They’re approach is simpler but they’re targetting the real end-user and are appearently making plans to support web app stuff also!!

    http://www.cebase.com

  8. Why can't startup do something like that?

    Startup should start Zero rather than taking risky shortcut to grand canyon(the Dot bomb!).

  9. Bob Haugen

    I think I agree with Bill.

    I think these things are all wonderful, but every one I have used has required developer skills (at least spreadsheet power-user level and usually more) to build real apps.

    Yeah, they abstract away a lot of complexity, but at least two difficult problems remain to be solved: design and leaky abstractions. (I’m sure I am missing several others, but both of those cover a lot of sins.)

    By “leaky abstractions” I mean for example horrible performance problems because you did not understand the actual cost of some attractive feature.

    That’s not really a criticism, just tempering expectations…

  10. Concrete Stain

    People go to college; for 5-10 years for a CS computer science degree (phd)

    - and don’t come out and make ”’shared calendars” or ”Customer relationship management”

    = They make “Programs” to program in :)

    Pure Genius, Rb

  11. edbong

    We have recently launched Applicationexchange.com. Still in Beta but the code will be available open source. http://www.applicationexchange.com

  12. Dylan Mayers

    I have tried so hard to introduce coghead into my organisation but there seems to be very low user adoption since it’s still too technical for most of our people.

    Will this be any different? I think I agree with Bill too. We need a genuine data management tool (sort of like a combination of access and excel) because that’s probably all the complexity non-technical users can handle

    Thanks for mentioning cebase.com! I’m gonna give it a try…

  13. Jon

    I really like this idea but it’s like trying to learn how to draw your own corporate logo with mspaint vs hiring a pro with illustrator. You simply cannot replace talent and experience (so far)… there is a certain artistry that is innate in some people to make blah look like FREAKING COOL - same goes with custom database applications.

    Jon

  14. Charles

    “LongJump, which launches today, is the newest entrant. The new service is a spinoff of an already profitable bubiness, Relationals, which was founded in 2003. The founder, 37 year old Pankaj Malviya, says the company needs no additional funding in the near future.”

    Mike, There is a typo in the above paragraph. “bubiness” should have been “business”.

    Charles

  15. Brian Hoffman

    It’s amazing that this is a “crowded space”. It seems like all of the people who used to try and shove Lotus Notes applications down our throats are now moving to online options to create odd applications that no one will enjoy using. I think if programmers program and non-programmers….non-program, then we all focus on our strengths and produce good output overall. They should have called it LongShot.

  16. Greg Olsen

    Brian, not all application development needs are analogous to spleen removal. Some are more like applying topical antibiotics or dressing a wound - in days past something only a trained professional might do. Do you ever cook your own food or do you only consume dishes prepared by trained Chefs. My own cooking sucks in contrast most restaurants I eat at, but sometimes it is the most efficient way to meet my dietary needs. While many software development needs will continue to require professionally trained developers, many others will be best served by a broader audience (using tools created by professional developers).

  17. bdb

    It is not real amazing Brian, considering developers often think they have some good idea and end up creating yet_another niche social network :-o, despite that market’s known saturation level.

    Many developers get together to form some business and at the end of the day, the product has no addressable market and/or very little value proposition;or, another solution for a well-occupied market.

    Both “sides” should probably not attempt to delve to far into the discipline of the “other”.

  18. Henry

    If this is about a Web-based IDE, then great. The problem for anybody more serious than some kid who wants to create something beyond a horrible-looking widget to plop on their MySpace page is that there is no flexibility and no scalability.

    Also, once a person creates an “app,” how does he or she distribute it?

  19. JohnnyRocks

    This is all about pain vs. gain. If you are willing to risk going through massive pain as your needs grow, then by all means go with these types of solutions.

    I equate these light weight web based data apps to being similar to MS Access. Sure a business user can make some nice queries and reports in Access really quickly. The problems come when you need more than one user to view the database at once, you need to do really complex transactional queries, you need failover, you need a nice normalized structure, you need to integrate with other systems, or you need real performance. You can’t imagine how many times I have seen divisions at Fortune 100 companies need to pay through the nose to migrate hacked together home grown systems to something stable and scalable.

    So a non technical person can crank a proof of concept/prototype in short time, but then what? All good programmers equate prototypes as throw away never to be launched into production, and for good reason. If you are serious about creating mission critical app (or one that can potentially become important at some point), then don’t rely on something so half baked. Quality software development is not rocket science, but it is not completely trivial.

    And I love the people who think they are going to build the next MySpace, Facebook, eBay, Amazon, etc. on these Wysiwyg platforms. Good luck with that… I hope their business plans have plenty of risk and padding in there.

  20. Mike_Aviles

    Vignette Builder. LOL.

    http://www.vignette.com/us/Pro.....te+Builder

    http://www.vignette.com/dafile.....lderLg.gif

  21. Sridhar Vembu

    I want to address the “Who needs application creation tools” question [we provide Zoho Creator]. A lot of small business people use tools like spreadsheets with macros (Excel macros are VB applications, really), MS Access and Filemaker to keep track of information. These are really custom business apps - which in very large enterprises would be done by “professional” IT departments. In fact, it is not an exaggeration to say that MS Excel is the most popular “programming” environment in the world, because of its built in VB based macros. I have known people who can do absolute magic with Excel. Similarly, MS Access is probably the most popular database in the world.

    That is the market segment we address with Zoho Creator. We have some real passionate users in Zoho Creator, ranging from real estate professionals to school principals. “Professional” programming languages like Java or C# are way too complex and way overkill for what they need.

    So the posters who talk about “Is my sister going to create the next GMail with these” got that right - that is not the intent of these types of tools.

  22. Revenue Model

    How do they make money?

  23. Brian Hoffman

    @BDB
    I’m sure you’re referring the site that I link from my post which is actually a site I help run as a favor to my fiance. She doesn’t really care that the market is saturated for social networks. I certainly have plenty of useful experience as a computer security consultant. Enough to have seen plenty of products that promise to help the Joe Blow do everything he wants to do. And have you used some of these tools? I have not used Zoho Creator myself but I did watch the Screencast and even though you can drag and drop a control from the toolbar it still generates code and newbies cannot do anything with that. It’s like saying that if I have Visual Basic I can just drag and drop the controls and I’ve got a program. It takes insight into technical architecture and design as well as programming skills to build an application correctly.

    @Greg
    I agree that sometimes we need to just hammer out some small application but usually that’s like a Wufoo form or an HTML site or maybe a blog or wiki. I’m not usually trying to construct a database backed application if I don’t know what I’m doing. If you’re building an application that people will use on the Internet there are also security risks as well that people have to be aware of. Even seasoned programmers run into these and how well do these tools address those issues?

  24. Frank Zamani

    The ability of creating web applications without coding is of tremendous interest to business users. At Caspio (www.caspio.com) we see our non-technical users mostly create quick forms for collecting data or import existing data to make searchable web interfaces.

    It requires more advanced users to architect a complex app. However, even advanced users benefit a great deal from Caspio, for being able to bring their vision to life very very quickly. We currently have thousands of deployed apps out on the web, mostly deployed on customer sites as widgets.

    Frank Zamani
    Founder, Caspio Inc.
    http://www.caspio.com

  25. Brent

    While this has little to do with anything….why is the long jump logo a hurdle guy? If it’s meant to be a long jumper man that’s bad form…decent hurdle form though.

    Designer wasn’t a track star

  26. Techcrunch need to reduce widget

    It will cause server slow down…

  27. Pankaj Malviya

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the great post. We really appreciate the time you took to speak with us. We were really excited to show you where we are and what we’re readying to bring to the market. This is certainly an interesting space with a lot of opportunity to make a real difference in changing business and information as we know it.

    Just to clarify…

    Today, we’ve opened up LongJump in Private Beta and we’re looking for end-users and business users to work with through this period. Anyone who is interested can go to http://www.longjump.com.

    While at this point we are currently focused on working with end-users, we haven’t forgotten about the developers. LongJump is in the process of preparing compelling tools that the developer community can leverage to drive their business. Developers will be a critical component to the success of LongJump.

    Again, thanks. And as we move forward, we will be sure to keep everyone in the loop.

  28. Brooke

    All I can do on their website is hover over three simple image-swaps displaying brief, vague information… Oh, and I can sign-up to be notified of when they launch.

    Am I missing something?

    Why would you cover this service when all they really have is a boring landing page? Or conversely, why would they give you a sneak peak when they aren’t ready to accept users from the wider Internet community?

    I’m confident this will be another example of a TC-spike without any substantial continued traffic to the site covered. I don’t think I’ll remember “Long Jump” in even a week’s time…

    Booerns, imo!

  29. anon

    Apps that can be created without any programming are generally not worth creating.

  30. Noah

    Anon,

    I don’t agree with your comment in the slightest, and I think you may be confused.

    These apps are created with programming. The website is essentially, from my understanding, one large app that allows people to create their own applications. Just like a WYSIWYG program like Dreamweaver or Frontpage, all of the programming is hidden behind the scenes.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure you are confused.

    Noah
    Galvanize Me

  31. james l

    I find it interesting that the site has no screenshots or demo, but sign up only collects your info… Now that is not using web technology in a way consumers want to get info, now I wait for them to get back to me???

    Try talking about http://www.quickbase.com. This company was purchased by Intuit a year or so back and I have used it for 5 years. Wonderful tool.
    Since I dont know what longjump really is I assume they are trying to be like Quickbase??

  32. Scott Preston

    I created a very similar app, called appgin.com. I could not get much traction because of lack of a marketing budget… I even tried to go to a local “business incubator” called Tech Columbus involved and to connect me with the right people, and you know what they told me when they looked at it? “So what, it’s a database.” They had no insight into this space what-so-ever…

    So, whatever you do, don’t try to start a company like this in Columbus, Ohio. People are more concerned with starting fast food companies than they are tech companies, or they want a bunch of PHDs working on bio-tech from the university…

  33. Larry Velez

    I think many of these solutions are slightly off target with the way they are approaching the problem. DabbleDB might be the closest.

    There are already enough “high level” languages to address the range of programmers from hobby coders to full time coders (Ruby/PHP -> Java/.net)

    If solutions are to move to the next level of abstraction then the solutions need to be built at a higher level with the components broken down into stages:

    New Information Acquisition ( Data Input/Import )
    - New Information Forms
    - Questionnaires
    - Import of Data using standardized import templates with deduping/updating capabilities

    Business Rules
    - Simple Logic Statements that dictate how data is processed and when (Filemaker Pro’s Model is a good starting point)

    Summaries and Reports
    - Drag and drop creating of Reports (Very much like Crystal Reports)
    - Report Scheduling
    - Report Bursting (creating multiple reports from the same master report which have unique permissions and data for each)
    - Ability to maintain the presentation pages for these which can be embedded into other CMS’ like Squarespace
    - Export to various formats (embeded html/RSS/XML/RDF )

    Workflow/Change Approval management
    - Ability to pause for approval during different parts of the workflow through the solution

    Note that none of these solutions approach the problem the way a coder would approach this problem - it is more like the way Quicken/Quickbooks approaches the problem of collecting, organizing, processing and reporting lots of information.

    In a perfect world, users create their “app” by being guided through the stages of the solution and hopefully having more value on the other side of the experience.

    I also think a great solution would try to encourage reuse of data and logic wherever possible by encouraging Yahoo! Pipes like connection of your ’solution’ which others. If all works well, niche solutions should develop, evolve and create more value for the ecosystem than any one person could create. This would let users focus on the piece that matters most to them - their unique data and business rules.

    As for the people who think these solutions are not needed, I would say that there are lots of people like myself who understand how a solution should come together - but just don’t want to spend so much time in a traditional programming language and instead want to quickly build a proof of concept that can evolve into a workable solution and if the need arises can have parts of it replaced with more enterprise class code as scalability needs increase.

  34. Scott Preston

    What I have found in my market research to date, is that the business user crowd needs something to move them off Excel as their application supplement. Right now all the apps out there do 80% of what a user needs at best, and they are stuck with doing the other 20% in Excel. So if the software to use is not easier than Excel, your barrier to entry will be too high to get someone to pay for it or in my case, even give it away.

    Someday there will be a bridge between your favorite framework: Rails / Symfony / Hibernate / Etc. and a tool like this.

  35. Bill

    It is amazing how crowded the space is and as the General Manager for the QuickBase business I can say that I absolutely believe that there is a need for tools for non-developers to create simple, multi-user applications. As people have said, Excel, Access, and FileMaker are rampant in businesses today and that’s because people have business problems that they can solve themselves… but that aren’t worth hiring a professional developer.

    How many small businesses would hire a professional developer to organize email responses to a few customer questions a day? What about the company party invitations? There are tons of issues like this that people use Excel for and it is a horrible solution! Also, businesses buy packaged solutions like Microsoft CRM, invest $50k or more, use 20% of the functionality and find it is too complicated and never gets adopted.

    At QuickBase we’ve built a big business for Intuit by targeting these business problems and applying Intuit’s focus on ease of use to enable business users to solve this group of problems. If Dell needs a new order entry system they shouldn’t be thinking about QuickBase or any of these products, but if they need to track a multi-department project to implement a new product category, we’re there for them.

    I appreciate the skepticism, but this space is getting crowded because a solution is needed and real businesses are forming. We’re making money because we are providing value. If there wasn’t a need people wouldn’t buy.

    I have no doubt that this is becoming a huge space in the coming years.

    Bill - bill at quickbase.com

  36. David Mackey

    I’ve been following Ning and I like this concept. Will add LongJump to the watching list.

  37. Sprezzatura

    “So a non technical person can crank a proof of concept/prototype in short time, but then what? All good programmers equate prototypes as throw away never to be launched into production, and for good reason. If you are serious about creating mission critical app (or one that can potentially become important at some point), then don’t rely on something so half baked. Quality software development is not rocket science, but it is not completely trivial.”

    /Quoted for Emphasis.

    As always, the phrase: “good, fast, cheap — pick any two” comes to mind. Sure, you can do a quick & dirty web app on the cheap using tools like this. But to suggest that it’s just as good as something a real developer would create is a joke. Or a lie — you can decide which.

  38. lemon obrien

    who’s the market and how would I as a businessman move my secure accounting system over to their platform; i currently run LAMP

    thanks

    cool logo.

  39. Peter Tapscott

    I note your cynicism and with good reason. It is extremely difficult to achieve a good and effective result without having to resort to traditional programming methods. My company enableapps embarked on this trail some 5 years ago and took until our most recent product, called Enable to achieve a pretty good balance between functionality, flexibility and performance. All design, development and administration is done via a browser, with no programming required. Personally I am not even close to being a programmer yet I have built and have installed in commercial corporations a number of applications that involve workflow and forms for apps like Document Control, Supplier corrective actions, Operations reports, simple HR forms and so on.

    I would though that a sound knowledge of business processes is essential and an understanding of business logic as it is applied in a rules based engine. Enable’s approach can be found at http://www.enableapps.com.au. We’re from Melbourne Australia.

  40. Matt Robinson

    There appears to be a general misperception about what to make of the various do-it-yourself application platforms available. What I believe the author here should have done is provide at least 3 categories that clearly separate the kinds of platforms he has broadly classified into an “Application Creation Space”:

    Category 1. Platforms that allow the creation of Enterprise-grade Business Applications (collaborative, scalable, feature-rich, multi-user SaaS):
    - AppExchange by Salesforce.com
    - QuickBase by Intuit
    - CogHead
    - …possibly LongJump
    - …3-5 others

    Category 2. Platforms that allow the creation of simple data management and form-based apps (quick and easy replacement for Excel/Filemaker/MSAccess for individuals and small teams)
    - DabbleDB
    - Zoho Creator
    - WyaWorks
    - …20-30 others

    Category 3. Platforms that allow the creation of simple web apps via Mashups (combining multiple sources of information into one view via web services; mostly for consumers)
    - Yahoo Pipes
    - Microsoft Popfly
    - Teqlo
    - Dapper
    - …others in development

    Regarding Category #1, where LongJump appears to fit best, the goal of these platforms is not to replace the need for software developers. Rather it is to provide business users with more power to solve problems themselves. It’s about empowering users with new tools to address their specific business needs as quickly as possible.

    There will always be a need for software engineers, I don’t believe any of the vendors mentioned here dispute this or believe that they will be replaced by online DIY app environments. However, there are many cases where it is simply much less efficient and economical to requisition IT or other professionals to build or buy a solution when a counterpart can be constructed online to do an adequate job in a fraction of the time, for a fraction of the cost, by that very business user who is closest to the problem being solved. It is these situations that DIY app platforms are designed for.

  41. Wayne Byrne

    One upcoming app missing from the category 1 list above is IcebergOnDemand.com