May 21, 2007

RealEditor Says “MySpace Ripped Us Off”

Michael Arrington

69 comments »

RealEditor is a MySpace profile editor that was created by Jay Elaraj and Dave Maestri, two Freewebs developers, in their leisure time.

It caught the eye of MySpace President Tom Anderson, who wrote to the founders in March. He complimented RealEditor and asked them if they’d be willing to come work for and/or sell the software to MySpace.

The co-founders declined. But they had a bit of a surprise recently when MySpace released it’s new editor, incorporating many of the features from RealEditor and some of the look and feel. They created a video here which shows some of the similarities.

At the end of the video, they say:

I can keep going, but I think I’ve proven my point that MySpace’s ‘new and innovative profile editor’ was just completely ripped off RealEditor.com, and MySpace is taking all the credit — and making some nice cash, I bet.

I have no problem with borrowing ideas, a lot of real innovation comes from that, but blatantly ripping off someone’s product and taking all the credit is just super lame, disrespectful, and pretty pathetic.

Also Kind of funny.

- Jay & Dave
www.realeditor.com

If it were me, I would have sold the editor to MySpace when they offered to buy it. There isn’t a close enough case for this to be worth litigation, and the traffic bump from calling MySpace out on this will be short lived.

Update: RealEditor has requested a clarification based on some of the comments coming in below. They say “They offered to pay us for the development time we already put into it at an “agreed upon” rate, and an hourly wage/jobs. Which didn’t appeal to us since we’re in a better position at freewebs. MySpace claims they offered a cash buyout upfront (in the tech crunch comment), so I assume that’s what they’re referring to. Specific numbers were never discussed, it never got as far as a “formal” offer.”

Sphere It

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May 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 am

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Comments

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bandersnatch

May 21st, 2007 at 9:55 am

that’s what happens when you design a service / offering off a more popular service. at any time, the existing service can easily take your functionality and incorporate into theirs, thus cannibalizing you.
Hari

May 21st, 2007 at 10:00 am

Shame on Myspace
Gal Josefsberg

May 21st, 2007 at 10:00 am

Exactly. If you depend on someone else for your entire business, that someone else can wipe you out whenever they want to. So sell to them when they ask you to. Sorry, it’s not fair, but it’s life.

GJ
http://www.60in3.com
Vik

May 21st, 2007 at 10:05 am

Wow, I never knew that Tom actually posted comments. I guess he must like this Jay dude because this is the firt time I see him comment a blog entry: http://blog.myspace.com/index......3e3314bee4
Zaid

May 21st, 2007 at 10:07 am

Like Mike said, they can complain all they want but legal(and some may say even logically), they can’t do much to MySpace.

My view: MySpace offered to work with them. They declined. So MySpace decided to do it alone–albeit inspired by their design.
Ryan

May 21st, 2007 at 10:10 am

Man, what a rip. Realeditor is the best myspace profile editor out there, and I would imagine took a ton of work to make it, and myspace just goes and steals it.
Jared

May 21st, 2007 at 10:17 am

Agreed. You can be damn sure that if Tom/MySpace came knocking at my door I would cash in ASAP. For a project that was apparently developed in their space time “for fun” I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to take advantage of myspace’s seemingly endless funds and sell.

To each his own I suppose.
Dimitri

May 21st, 2007 at 10:19 am

Zaid It’s one thing if it was similar or inspired, but the point is that they used exact wording and all the same options.
Andy W

May 21st, 2007 at 10:20 am

Of course, there is the simple fact that the style of the pages is driven by a certain number of discrete elements and attributes, so *any* editor is going to be set-up to allow you to edit those same items.

Go look at at any program that edits CSS or HTML files and compare the attribute dialogs for an element; they are going to be identical not because they are rip-offs, but because they are editing the same set of attributes.

As for look-and-feel: they are using the same control elements and that’s about it.

This is not a rip-off; not even close.

It can’t even be said there original editor was novel and allowed any functionality over-and-above that *any* epected editor of that set of elements would have.

They are just miffed because MySpace has made their stuff obselete.

Ah diddums!
Frank Cefalu

May 21st, 2007 at 10:20 am

@6

They didn’t steal anything, they recreated it with similar functionality. It took them just as much time as Real Editor did. They offered to buy it from them so they wouldn’t go through the trouble of building it themselves. Its the team at real editors fault they should of saw this coming.

I would of taken the job. =P
Dave - RealEditor

May 21st, 2007 at 10:20 am

Dave from Realeditor here -

Who cares if myspace built their own editor, more power to them, it’s their right to build it, it’s their service.

We’re just a little annoyed that they copied us so blatantly, and really, all we can do is sit back and laugh at the things they copied. Where’s your sense of humor people?

“has XX friends” comon
youtubesearcher

May 21st, 2007 at 10:23 am

The co-founders were idiots.

They were offered “something” for their little creation, they declined, so myspace copied there stuff.

What did they think was going to happen ??? Myspace come begging back with a better offer.

Nope, plain and simple they passed on there chance and now wish they had’nt.
Robert Dewey

May 21st, 2007 at 10:23 am

I had sympathy (with a hint of anger towards MySpace) until I seen the part about them declining the software acquisition offer. Unless they have a software patent on the design and function, why would they not sell? Were they really so blind as to think that MySpace wouldn’t (or couldn’t) create something very similar with little effort?

With such a platform-specific tool, it’s not like they could wait for an offer from Facebook or some other SN…
techcrunch20 group

May 21st, 2007 at 10:25 am

Oh, by the way, if anyone out there wants to discuss the upcoming TechCrunch20 Conference, I created a google group for this topic…

http://groups.google.com/group/techcrunch20
Frank Cefalu

May 21st, 2007 at 10:27 am

@11 Dave & Mike

“We’re just a little annoyed that they copied us so blatantly, and really, all we can do is sit back and laugh at the things they copied. Where’s your sense of humor people?”

You serious? You could be sitting back right now in a office at MySpace, or on an island somewhere with the money made from your software. We should be sitting back laughing at you.
Jay -- RealEditor

May 21st, 2007 at 10:31 am

Yeesh. We’re not bitter or angry, we’re not looking for any sympathy, we just think it’s funny.

As for turning down MySpace’s offer, they just offered us an hourly rate to build it for them, and we weren’t willing to leave our current jobs for an hourly wage, so why would we do that? It’s funny. Laugh.
haha
Zaid

May 21st, 2007 at 10:38 am

#8
If MySpace felt that was the best wording they could use, why wouldn’t they use it assuming legally they are clear? But after hearing Jay’s side, I do think MySpace(if they liked this thing so much) should’ve tried to work out a financial deal that worked for RealEditor guys rather than some hourly crap.

Jay, take this thread to your employer and negotiate your salary:)

–Zaid
Robert Dewey

May 21st, 2007 at 10:42 am

Well, the blog post does state “work for and/or sell the software”… was this the case? Did they offer to buy the software? If so, how much were they offering?

If they didn’t offer to buy it, then maybe the blog post should be fixed to reflect that. I probably wouldn’t have taken the hourly wage option either, FWIW.
Erik

May 21st, 2007 at 10:44 am

I think the discussion should rather be divided into two different parts which in most cases seem impossible to marry - a business and a moral/ethical consideration. From a business (or probably legal too), it makes sense that they got “inspired” to ripped off the editor. Morally and ethically, I will always think it is uncool to fully rip off ideas and not giving any credit and even if you are only inspired by something you should say so especially if the similarities are striking.

I also do remember a discussion about a Digg clone some time ago and then everyone thought it was really bad behavior. What’s the difference here?
Jared

May 21st, 2007 at 10:44 am

Should of known that Tom is a stingy bastard!

I figured he/they might of said, “we will give you $XXXXX for your code base”. Which, to me, would have made the most sense for both parties. But if they came to you offering an “hourly wage” I can see why you declined.
Hornswaggled

May 21st, 2007 at 10:44 am

I see both sides and it doesnt seem like these guys are pissed. Maybe a little irritated at both Myspace and themselves for not selling.

This to me is just another reason not to like Myspace (I admit that I look for reasons not to like it) . You have to give Myspace some credit because they tried to do the right thing and purchase the software and when they got denied they built it themselves. Any company would do the same if it was an option.

Hopefully these guys can beat out the new editor with an update to this one if they feel inclined and keep one step ahead of Myspace. Good luck guys.
Dave - RealEditor

May 21st, 2007 at 10:46 am

We’re not talking about millions of dollars here people. We’re not even talking dollars at all. It’s like, quit your job, take a salary cut, and give us your editor.

Just because a company is big and has tons of cash, it doesn’t mean they are gonna give it away to a couple dudes like us.

A lot of people here say they would take the job at MySpace - well that’s because your job sucks. Mine doesn’t.
Guk

May 21st, 2007 at 10:47 am

I find this easier to use http://www.mywackospace.com/myspace-editor/. The realeditor thing is nice but too complicated for me to use.
Ed

May 21st, 2007 at 10:55 am

Totally agree with #13. No patents. Caught MySpace’s attention and compliments. Got an offer to buy it.

Dave, stop bitching. You took no actions (neither sold or patented the idea). I have no sympathy. Tough luck is what I say.
myspace insider

May 21st, 2007 at 10:56 am

Myspace offered them buyout cash for the work/product they’d created and offered them jobs because they seemed like bright kids. Now they realeditor guys are changing their story because they’re looking stupid in these comments.
youtubesearcher

May 21st, 2007 at 10:56 am

If that’s the case, you probably should have posted the offer details and your current situation with full time jobs, instead of some little rant about how your little web pages were copied by the big bad myspace.
Guk

May 21st, 2007 at 11:07 am

So Dave how much did they offer? What was the hourly rate they offered?
sean percival

May 21st, 2007 at 11:12 am

Love how “Tom” admits the new profile editor will break all 3rd party ones. They certainly do a great job working with the community they created.
myspace insider

May 21st, 2007 at 11:23 am

The new editor (not this one) will break old editors cause the myspace profile itself will change. The reason the editor community knows about it is because Tom has reached out to Editor sites to work with them/give them a pre-release of the new style sheet to make their own editors. In other words, sir, you’re talkin out ur backside.
youtubesearcher

May 21st, 2007 at 11:29 am

All the editors know they are living at the whim of myspace changing, that’s a fact of life with screen scraping, so stop your whining.

After all, what is myspace supposed to do, never change a page for fear of breaking a scraper ?!
J-son

May 21st, 2007 at 11:32 am

Dave & Jay: You innovated before–innovate again.
Free Web Meeting/Slide Sharing

May 21st, 2007 at 11:32 am

i feel the realeditor had a chance to cash on their hardwork and they let is pass over. why blame myspace…let us assume that another startup couple did a similar thing by creating a similar realeditor …ideas are currency only till the time they cannot be duplicated…if the entry barriers are low..get cashed out as fast as possible…in fact the realeditor should have considered themselves lucky that myspace was willing to spend on them..
James12

May 21st, 2007 at 11:42 am

Eh, either way, you guys should be proud that Myspace chose you guys above everyone else to copy. Means you had the best one:) Good luck with realeditor.. looks cool.
walter

May 21st, 2007 at 11:46 am

why on earth didn’t they sell it? what did they expect????
nate

May 21st, 2007 at 11:46 am

You guys should have just sold it to MySpace for a couple hundred K. Especially if you didnt want to take a job their.
banonymous

May 21st, 2007 at 11:47 am

There has to be something in their non-compete with Freewebs about this. They are developing products for the enemy in their spare time!

Freewebs has made it very clear that they are targeting MySpace.
manfmnantucket

May 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pm

An hourly rate? like how much per hour, $100? I bet their devs make decent $.

What I really wonder is why myspace doesn’t establish some kind of OEM program, API, or at least policy.

Such a program would make it well-defined what kinds of things people can develop on top of myspace without risk of being shut down, and perhaps give myspace a first-refusal type option on acquiring add-ons.
This could create a much healthier ecosystem around myspace… currently the way it manages its relationships with add-on builders seems dysfunctional and retarded - let them dare to build something and live in fear of being shut down with no explanation. That kills any real innovation.

A developer program would be great for PR, and provide a nicer way of managing ‘deal flow’ for myspace, etc…
Jay -- RealEditor (insider)

May 21st, 2007 at 12:12 pm

The only “cash buyout” we were offered was an “agreed upon” rate for development time, along with an hourly wage to develop a new version. There’s no reason we’d ever accept that since we’re in MUCH better positions at our current jobs, so we graciously declined. Specific numbers were never even offered. How is this changing our story?

We’re not looking for any sympathy. We’re just pointing out that their new editor is a pretty direct copy of ours. If you disagree, that’s cool. If not, sweet..?

Good times.
trevo

May 21st, 2007 at 12:16 pm

I think MySpace did the right thing. They offered to pay them some cash for something they could EASILY develop themselves.

Its business buddy… look at what’s great and either buy or build — should Google whine because Yahoo! copied their draggable maps? At the end of the day, MySpace would be really stupid if they DIDN’T copy what they thought were superior design and functionality (after they tried buying and failed)…
trevo

May 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pm

Oh yeah, that’s what patents are for. For better or worse, if you “invented” something novel, you should protect it with a patent.

Without patents, this is the exact thing that will happen to anyone who creates something novel but is otherwise easy to duplicate once everyone sees it.
Free Web Meeting/Slide Sharing

May 21st, 2007 at 12:22 pm

This strategy of waiting for others to do the hard work and creatinve slogging and then when everybody is done, put a team to copy it and add it to your own functionality is a well known tool used by many giant companies and small startups always have to be ready to be eaten by them..it would be lucky that some company like myspace comes across which offers you some dough for your hard work..
Back in old days

May 21st, 2007 at 12:53 pm

Steve Jobs scream at Bill Gates after releasing windows 1.0 while they were inside Apple HQ.

Gates draw out source code. No one buy apple because it’s too expensive.
Jay -- RealEditor (insider)

May 21st, 2007 at 12:58 pm

@trevo, whoever

We’re not whining or complaining. Keep in mind that this TechCrunch article was written from Mike Arrington’s perspective, not ours. Their editor hasn’t even affected ours.

If I was MySpace, I would have built an editor too; it’s their service afterall, they can do whatever they want. The point was just the blantant copying as shown in the video. If you have no problem with that, that’s fine.

The video was just meant to be funny.

#41:

I agree. But, as I said, leaving our current situation to accept their dough would put us in a worse situtaion, so there’s no reason why we’d do that.
Free Web Meeting/Slide Sharing

May 21st, 2007 at 1:01 pm

In spite of all said and done…now that this topic has been publicized on a forum as popular as TechCrunch…it will be very logical that the myspace guys will come back with a 100k/300k offer to them (readeditor guys) to keep their mouth shut…thats peanuts to myspace and less costlier than a full PR exercise if this thread was to be publicised in say a NY Times column or say on Wall Street Journal. Three cheers to TechCrunch!!!
suck it

May 21st, 2007 at 1:21 pm

you should’ve took myspace’s offer to work for them. that’s what you get! stop griping about stealing, when myspace does it better. you had your chance. you wouldn’t have made RealEditor if myspace didn’t exist. you were planning on cashing in using myspace, so booo hooo.
REALEDITOR CREATE GPL SOFTWARE

May 21st, 2007 at 1:49 pm

Smart way to attack Myspace. Give out GPL or give code to FACEBOOK.

Facebook will scream & turn their face red with extreme anger.
P.S... JAY

May 21st, 2007 at 2:11 pm

Don’t worry about being copied…. Remember Coca Cola company.

Give tradesecret source code to tiny startup companies. All you have to do be source code spy agent. Keep source code quiet, give startup, use fake name, and run away from it.

It works great.

Did you know that Yahoo didn’t invent search engine?
LN

May 21st, 2007 at 2:35 pm

It seems to me that too many people don’t actually read before they let rip with an ill thought out comment. The RealEditor guys aren’t looking or sympathy or vindication from all the commentors that obviously have soooo much better business sense, - they are simply pointing out that they made something cool, were made an unattractive offer for it which they declined and were simply and blatantly copied. It’s not rocket science, - they are clearly more amused than annoyed. Imitation is the sincest form of flattery, and not everything is about being the next big aquisition story…
Saagar

May 21st, 2007 at 2:49 pm

I understand that Real Editor guys are not looking for sympathy, but from what I understand from here, I see the bullying nature of MySpace. First they ban Photobucket before acquiring them, showing them who is the boss, and thus dictating the terms and grabbing it for a steal. Now when they realized that they cannot get the RealEditor guys to code for them for some low pay, they ripped off the code and used it in their own editor. Legally these RealEditor guys might not be able to do anything, and there taking it easy shows their cool attitude, but I personally believe that MySpace is not being fair here, let alone being ethical. But, as they say, what goes definitely comes around and MySpace will have 2 pay when it is it’s turn
atomic1fire

May 21st, 2007 at 3:24 pm

no patent
so its anyones territory
the only thing stopping myspace from patenting it is you saying I did it first
and some other dudes with a simular concept
you think Microsoft office can sue open office because they both have save as in some way shape or form
no unless either patented it
Tim

May 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pm

“pre-release of the new style sheet to make their own editors”

is that available anywhere?
mathew

May 21st, 2007 at 3:29 pm

Did someone expect business ethics from Rupert Murdoch and News International?

If so, please call your doctor and ask about treatment for your gullibility.
CSamarin

May 21st, 2007 at 3:53 pm

Build it and flip it! They should just keep building on what they have and stay a couple step ahead of MySpace.

Were they making any money with their editor???
Chris

May 21st, 2007 at 4:00 pm

Uh…a patent would not protect this. You people suggesting that they should’ve patented this functionality/process are retards. The legal fees to defend the patent would outstrip any possible revenue from this site in about a week.

I’m sure there are about 500 patents around “automatic web design” as well.

-Chris
Jorge

May 21st, 2007 at 4:37 pm

OMIGOD!

We based our company on someone else’s service, and they when they upgraded their service, they included all the features that formed the basis of our product!

STOP THE PRESSES!

We never expected MySpace to try and upgrade their website!!!
Jon

May 21st, 2007 at 4:51 pm

Is this a case where it’s all about finding the right M&A attorney when the 800 lb gorilla knocks on your door? It sounds like the problem was that these guys weren’t getting the right advice. The average silicon valley coder isn’t going to negotiate a good deal from MySpace. You need to know when it’s time to bring in someone with a business background.
Arnold Leung

May 21st, 2007 at 6:04 pm

I don’t see anything wrong with MySpace making their own editor after seeing RealEditor. Any adult should understand that they do not ‘own’ an idea. They may own a patent to a process or design but you can never own an idea. They should know this from the very beginning before spending all that time developing the software.

If MySpace is wrong, then it would be wrong for everyone to make a new social network because ’social networking is Friendster’s idea?’.
Don Schmitt

May 21st, 2007 at 6:15 pm

The only valuable 3rd party editors left will be actual WYSIWYG profile data editors (e.g. our editor at http://www.profilemine.com), not just the stylesheet editors like RealEditor.

The only thing that surprises me is that MySpace didn’t bother to take the opportunity to create a structured profile definition and a robust editor solution. They just copied the best-of-breed MySpace stylesheet editor (which also happened to have the shortest existence).
Reggie

May 21st, 2007 at 7:04 pm

It seems dat Mah’space likes t’steal fum de coders and act all innocent and propuh’ but now de trud gots come out. Good fo’ de coders t’talk about whut be and whut ain’t. It’s easy fo’ some scribbler t’put text on Website but fo’ de real happenin’s ya’ need t’talk t’dose involved.
patricia

May 21st, 2007 at 7:31 pm

Wow, lots of comments.

If it wasn’t making money, I can’t see why MySpace would buy it. I don’t know the details of their offer (if it was covered, sorry) but I would have probably opted to take them up on it, leveraging it to spin out my own company and see where it takes me. I’m sure there could have been a way to work with them without compromising the cushy gig they already had, at least in the early phase. I just see it all as maybe a little short sighted, but again, don’t know the specifics.

A new start up that already has a project with MySpace, from the guys who created the top editor on the site? We love things like this. They would have been media champs.
mike

May 21st, 2007 at 10:14 pm

You guys have a copyright violation case. Pursue it!!!
Bill

May 21st, 2007 at 11:33 pm

Why on earth are people wasting their talent on myspace editors anyway? What’s with realeditor dudes using IE too? It’s a damn shame.
KwangErn Liew

May 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 am

Right, and MySpace was the first ever social networking website for teens/young adults?

haha~
Bob Dole

May 23rd, 2007 at 8:01 pm

take the money you fools!!!!