March 19, 2007

Amazon Forcing Name Change at Alexaholic

Michael Arrington

40 comments »

Alexa junkies have been using Alexaholic for over a year now. It’s a much better and faster way of accessing Alexa site traffic data and trends than Alexa itself, and is an example of a small startup using Amazon’s own web service in a much better way than they do themselves. Alexaholic is now the no. 3 search result for Alexa on Google, after Alexa itself and Wikipedia’s entry on Alexa.

Instead of embracing the service, Amazon has at times tried to shut it down, and is now trying to obtain the domain name under a trademark infringement action. To avoid any further confrontation, Alexaholic is changing it’s name to Statsaholic. I think this would be a good time for them to also add in additional third party data services, starting with Compete.com.

Sphere It

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Lots of Stats For Any Site

March 26th, 2007 at 1:57 am

Alexa's Indelicate Handling of Statsaholic » RonHornbaker.com

March 26th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

webforth » Amazon blocks Statsaholic

April 27th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

Comments

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Ron Hornbaker

March 19th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

Thanks for the coverage, Michael. It’s a shame that it has come to this with Amazon/Alexa, who on the one hand have put large efforts to be more web-2.0-ish and embrace mashups with their apis, but on the other hand have no problem shutting me down because of the word “alexa” in the domain.

I do hope to bring in other data sources like Compete in the near future. My main priority is to keep Statsaholic a wicked-fast interface to traffic data, and I remain a big fan of Alexa’s engineers and data. Their lawyers, not so much.
Stan

March 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

There is a new Twitter service that just came out, called Twitterholic (www.twitterholic.com) hopefully they will not face the same problem as Alexaholic guys…
Tony Chen

March 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

This is really called biting themselves. I just wonder why Amazon can’t make their own service better.
Tony Chen

March 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Nice that your on top of things, Ron.
Vic Okezie

March 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

The new name sounds nicer though. Or what do you think, Mike?

And incorporating more stats apps like compete will increase the strenght of their services, than dependence on just Alexa. Good luck to them on the name change… and to a possible wider approach to web traffic data.
Jay Meattle

March 19th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

If you haven’t already, check out AttentionMeter.com

The site lets one triangulate Alexa, Compete (coming less than 2 weeks) and Quantcast charts on one page. No jumping around.

Best,
Jay

jay at attentionmeter.com
Ron Hornbaker

March 19th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

@Jay Meattle,

Jay from Compete? Are you still with Compete? What’s up with the total ripoff of Alexaholic’s interface on AttentionMeter? I’m flattered, but sheesh. Even the footer and the bookmarklet text contain nearly identical copy.
onlooker.

March 19th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

changing your domain name will only dilute its brand image it built up.

david succombed to golitath.

but the word alexa, in it’s own right is, unique.
so i guess it is to some degree considered infringement.

i don’t like companies that use any part, of their competitors’ name in any way, shape, or form…

so i’m all for amazon suing the hell out of that ‘holic
Dwayne

March 19th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

I use compete to compliment alexa numbers and it helps alot. They should integrate 3rd party services, the name change helps them do that.
Sarah

March 19th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

hey-
i found your site through the Bloggies website.
i had a quick question for you.

do you know of any type of counters/trackers that track the IP addresses of commenters to my blog?
Allen Stern

March 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Sarah - check out extremetracking.com - it’s like $4 a month (they have free too) - their ip services freaking rock - I love it.
Steve Morsa

March 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

Chuckles are surely in order here…on the one hand, Ron’s surprised & dissapointed at Amazon for not letting him rip off their Alexa…while Ron’s unhappy that Jay ripped off Ron’s interface for AttentionMeter…

…one man’s rip off is another man’s…
Morgan

March 19th, 2007 at 3:17 pm

I think the new name is much better.

And it’s tough being Amazon here, I think in general they are more than generous with their data. When it comes to name stuff, they have to defend it or lose it. It’s too bad, but I don’t think they have too much choice here.

Anyway, statsaholic is so much better.

Good luck.
Ron Hornbaker

March 19th, 2007 at 3:28 pm

@Steve Morsa,

Yes, I certainly set myself up for that one, didn’t I? Not to put too fine a point on it, but A) I didn’t copy someone’s design, css, js, html, and copy, and I gave my source (Alexa) full credit and linkbacks for providing their api data, while B) Jay did copy someone’s design, css, js, html, and copy, and didn’t give them (me) credit.

It should also be noted that Alexa was a public supporter of Alexaholic in the early days, and worked closely with me to get their backlinks right from my site. See http://awis.blogspot.com/2006/.....elift.html for the Alexaholic mention.
Chris Yeh

March 19th, 2007 at 3:46 pm

Jeez, if Amazon was upset, why not just make Alexa better?

Whether or not Alexaholic is an infringing mark (which I suspect it is) should be irrelevant to Amazon’s business objectives.

If the Alexa team wasn’t willing to improve their product, why go after a guy who was doing precisely that for free?
Jay

March 19th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

Hey Ron,

I was going to send you an email, but since you raised some questions in this thread, I’ll address them right here.

I was scratching my own itch when I created AttentionMeter.. I was sick of jumping around sites to compare traffic stats.. and instead of waiting for someone to create something (remember I sent you an email, I think back in Oct/Nov with a similar idea?), I just created a quick and dirty site one lazy Sunday afternoon. You probably can relate to this situation.

Was it inspired by Alexaholic? Most certainly. I wanted *you* to do this in the first place! The Alexa chart interface elements were inspired by a standard that was created by Alexaholic/you. Hell, Alexa’s new chart box is also similar to your chart box. You should ask them for attribution as well :))

I do want to clarify that the JS used on AttentionMeter (heart of the site) is very straightforward, and admittedly a little crude - just ‘View Source’ of the page. The code was *NOT* copied from your site — yours seems to be very much more complex, and quite frankly — I have no idea what is in it! Looks like you encrypted/compressed it.. or at least made it v. hard to decipher.

I’m not looking to make money from the site — notice no adverts, no Google adsense, nothing on the site. I’ll be happy if the site is of use to even one more person besides myself. I spent time developing the site, it might as well live free and be of use.

I’m more than happy to link to Statsaholic.com.

–
phew — this has got to be my longest blog comment till date!
Josh

March 19th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

I think that Alexa is right, about the naming issue. But I think Alexa data is really over appreciated, and i don’t find sites like Alexaholic or movers20.esnips.com too useful. Compete and Quantcast are much more reliable, specially for US traffic data.
Jason

March 19th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

I am not an Alexa fan either. It is very arbitrary. Too bad Amazon didn’t embrace this and decided to try to shut them down.
Mike D.

March 19th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Jay: Amazon’s actions don’t really seem too hostile to me. Wouldn’t you agree? From what I know, they’ve asked you to stop using their trademarked name and that’s about it. They haven’t sued, and more importantly they haven’t taken away your access to their data (which they can do in about five seconds if they really wanted to).

One thing that sometimes gets lost in these incidents is that trademark holders are actually *required* to vigorously defend their trademark, or else they risk losing it. It’s the same reason Tivo doesn’t let other companies use the term “Tivo” as a generic word for DVR. If the word slips into what’s considered common usage, the company can actually lose some of their trademark rights.

Since your redirect remains intact, I actually look at this as a net plus for you. It lets you transition your site into a more all-around traffic comparison destination and weans you off the Alexa brand slightly.
Steve Morsa

March 19th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

@Ron H.

err…yes you did set yourself up for that one, Ron

Mike D.’s correct on the TM issue for Amazon; if they allow you, tough to stop others from doing the same thing.

Since “they” didn’t mind your name in the beginning, it’s pretty clear that whoever(s?) didn’t “mind” didn’t check w/legal before “not minding.”

Agree w/Mike also that in the long run, this name change will be nothing but a big positive for you and your company.

In addition to differentiating you from the competition, if you should ever want to sell your company, top dollar would be tough to realize as long as your name included someone else’s TM…

Best wishes.
Wes

March 19th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Its good that they are going to change their to avoid any more confrontations. Their product looks good and should do well under the new name.
Otis Gospodnetic

March 19th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

Everyone:
If you like Alexa, you may want to read about Why Alexa Can’t be Trusted. I can’t take it seriously any more.
Otis Gospodnetic

March 19th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

Plus, has anyone noticed that *A LOT* of numbers/charts for sites like Digg, del.icio.us, my Simpy, etc. are all going down? I doubt Digg’s traffic is going down. Same with del.icio.us. And I know for a fact Simpy’s traffic is very much going up, not down. Yet, Alexa shows exactly the opposite. It looks like the downwards curve started around the end of the year for all these sites. For example:
http://www.alexa.com/data/deta.....l=digg.com
Ron Hornbaker

March 19th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

@Otis,

Barring some monumental screwup in Alexa’s data store (highly unlikely), those sites are going down because others are going up. Alexa data is relative, not absolute, so if one site’s graph goes up, another must go down. Reach is measured in X visitors *per 1 million* thru Alexa’s service. Same with pageviews. Alexa’s intended use is in comparative traffic analysis… it is not meant to mirror your internal, absolute web metrics.
How to start a clothing line from scratch

March 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pm

I like compete better anyway!
Otis Gospodnetic

March 20th, 2007 at 4:09 am

Ron:
Alexa snowing relative traffic…. I thought I saw that somewhere, but couldn’t find where they mention that. But what sense does it make to have the “Percent of global Internet users who visit this site” be relative? Sounds like an absolute thing to me.
w2i

March 20th, 2007 at 8:13 am

i like quantcast better than both comepete and alexa
guest

March 20th, 2007 at 9:22 am

@Otis,

Here’s a simple mathematical example.

Suppose there are 1 billion internet users today, and website A gets 100 million views/day. Then their global reach is 10%.

Now, suppose a year from now, there are 2 billion internet users, and website A gets 150 million views/day. Their traffic is up 50%, but their global reach is down to 7.5%.
Daniel Waisberg

March 20th, 2007 at 9:30 am

Josh,

you compare Alexaholic to Movers2.0, but the Movers2.0 guys have noticed Alexa’s weak points long ago, they are far from an Alexa subsidiary. They already included Quantcast and compete to their numbers. Check out: http://movers20.esnips.com Just click on any link “more”

Daniel
Agent99

March 20th, 2007 at 11:24 am

It’s really telling when companies like Alexa decide to compete using litigation rather than innovation.

I just hope, for sake of the user community, that Alexa does not continue to apply this type of “big company sqeeze the little company” mentality against the rest of their value added developer community.

Does anyone know when Compete.com or Ranking.com plan to include d-a-i-l-y stats to further level the playing field against Alexa?

An RSS API would also be nice to easily mash up the domain valuation data with other services so that the long tail web publishers could finally enjoy a more effective way to benchmark themselves within their business categories.

Alexa, so far, appears to restrict their API only to hard core development types.
Mike D.

March 22nd, 2007 at 9:00 am

Uhhhh, maybe I spoke too soon. According to Photomatt, Amazon is now indeed blocking Alexaholic’s charts from loading… and I hope to god I wasn’t the one who gave them that idea by my earlier comment in this thread. If so, I’m so so so so sorry Ron! If not, well, I’m still sorry this has happened!
Arun

March 23rd, 2007 at 2:53 pm

Amazon is blocking Statsaholic completely now.
http://www.webforth.com/2007/0.....tatsaholic
TheSmokingGun

March 23rd, 2007 at 9:13 pm

So, why isn’t Amazon going after this guy, then?:

http://atopsites.com/

It wouldn’t, perhaps, have something to do with
his very high level of supportive activity within the
Awis developer forums would it?

Seems here, on behalf of Statsaholic, that Alexa
may be practicing a dual standard?

Hey, Quantcast: knock, knock - there’s an opportunity
for you guys to release your API to validate what
Alexa may already know is a better product!!
Viktors

March 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

As an owner of AlexaRadar.com, a traffic comparison service which focuses on international movers & shakers, I’m worried if I’ll be the next target of Alexa/Amazon lawyers. I didn’t worry about trademark issue in the beginning since Alexaholic was a great example of how a big company and a small guy can cooperate, until Alexa made an almost exact copy of Ron’s Ajax interface.
Anon

March 27th, 2007 at 11:59 am

The “war of words” evidently continues with Alexa’s Product Mgr. providing Alexa’s side of the story:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007...../#comments

What’s most interesting with Alexa’s response in the post above, is what they are not stating.

What now is the direction for Alexa’s AWIS API and why should any 3rd party developers support new developments using their data?
Anon

March 27th, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Typo - the URL provided was incorrect.

Here’s the correct URL to Alexa’s blog post regarding the “war of words”
post.

http://awis.blogspot.com/2007/.....holic.html

Sorry for the miscue.
Art

April 17th, 2007 at 8:41 am

I don’t know both.