Sony’s Grouper Picks Fight With Searchles

why limit this to online video? for years now it has been to the web’s aggregate advantage to allow any content to be crawled…what happens if web content/service ownership consolidates over time and content providers decide to block google’s crawler, for example? what is google without everyone else’s content?

perhaps there is existing precedents, but as far as i know, crawling and indexing is not a settled issue.

Well the list goes on and on as for the companies that would be negatively impacted if cross-site aggregation and other value adds were prohibited.  The Sony/Grouper situation is arguably a particularly closed ecosystem, Grouper having been acquired in large part to foster the distribution of Sony video.  (Fwiw, the people behind Grouper are pretty cool.)

Big video sites in general are usually more open to aggregation etc. as long as proper attribution, link backs, etc. are done right.  I’m not sure how Searchles was treating Sony/Grouper content but if it was comparable to how, say VodPod handles Blip for example, and there were objections anyway - then I’d say this C&D represents a minority position in the industry.  Companies are learning that innovation in distribution and value ad doesn’t have to all be in-house in order for the original content holder to benefit.  It’s the same argument they make to the really big content holders, too.

I don’t think the “you denigrate the experience by removing our Send to Friends” argument is very compelling, but there are good ways and bad ways to aggregate third party media content.  SplashCast, and many others in the industry, are working on figuring out the best way to do it.

It is interesting that easily consumable media like audio and video is being fought over so vehemently while written content has never really had any issues like this.

‘Traurig’ is the German expression for ’sad’…

Marc - traurig fuer Searchles, Grouper oder das ganze Internet?? Ich habe keine ahnung was Grouper meint hier. Tschuss. ck

They don’t even spell the URL right. For $500/hr, you’d think the attorney could be more accurate

As much as I hate asinine DMCA notices, Grouper may have a bit of a point. Unlike Splashcast, Searchles does not link back to the original video site where the video is posted. It’s a nitpick, but it may give them an advantage in court, if this ever gets that far.

That said, video hosting sites need to remember that they do not automatically own all video uploaded to them, and thus have absolutely no right to limit its distribution.

That letter was written horribly. “Indeed, it does not appear your site even complies with the DMCA.” Why is that in the letter? I imagine a 15 year old with a smirk writing that trying to sound impressive, indeed.

The Viacom-Google suit may establish a legal precedent that, combined with all these other “lawyer paydays’, could shake up in the video craze. If Google looses, or even if the court “splits the baby”, video communities might be penny stocks overnight.
As Marshall points out, these companies might be wiser to be a little more forgiving so that the “goose” is not slain!
I hope this helped the discourse!
Phil

Do you guys at TC actually think before you write these articles?

Grouper’s problem is that Searchles is removing their identifying the video and essentially claim it as their own, without crediting Grouper. And on top of that, Searchles is using Grouper’s content for commercial purposes that aren’t protected by any sort of fair use.

That’s the textbook definition of copyright infringement. There’s no precedent set by this case.

It would be different if a user uploaded a Grouper clip as part of a video they made *using* Searchles, but that’s not the issue here.

I think Chris can safely ignore the letter since they don’t run the site: searchels.com
What a moron.. If I were Sony, I’ll think about getting a new laywer.

Wow. That’s about the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while.

http://www.apple-tv-converter.com

Jorge, i think TC does a great job of presenting a balanced view on a variety of issues. you’re obviously upset about this - strange? chill…..

Ilya@#25 — They may not own the copyrights on videos, but they certainly own the bandwidth that streams/distributes them, as well as having a license to distribute as they see fit (pretty much) — that’s more the issue for me. A 3rd party, unaffiliated parasitic app has no “right” to suck bandwidth and data out, whether folks stop them or not, the ability for another company to step in and say *no* is very real. Why they didn’t mention the usage of resources (which, clearly, have a very real cost) is somewhat beyond me, actually.

they violating copyright. can’t be changing shit without no rights.

good

Nice suggestion

Nag - thanks, I had forgotten 1videoconference. I added them to the post. DimDim is also open source.
http://www.cddvdripper.com

Brad: I fail to see how this is much different from taking a Youtube or Grouper video and embedding it onto your own site, even if your site has ads.

Bottom line- in rewrapping the content, they have essentially stolen it…Grouper has the law and common sense on it’s side.

# Marshall Kirkpatrick I think spashcast should start worrying with the likes of the 1 billion dollar legal cat fights which are threatening to rip the largest companies apart… Be worried, be very worried.

Searchles. I don’t think it’s a very good name. How does one pronounce it? Is it like “circles” or more like “searchless”!!

Do you guys think it’s lame that this third party takes the content from Grouper, strips out all the stuff that’s valuable to Grouper, and then just uses their videos and their bandwidth for free? I’m all for linking and everything, but the idea is supposed to be that if you link to someone’s content, the end-user can click back to the site where the video originated from. That’s how it’s been working with everyone else, why won’t Searchles adhere to the “rules”? Also, what does Searchles have to say? It seems like everyone is focused on the lawyer’s letter, but who is doing the right and wrong thing here? Based on what I’m reading here, it seems like Searchles is in the wrong.

@Chris Neumann/others

The C&D letter claims that we are removing the ability to report infringing content. In fact, it is easier to report infringing content using the Searchles player than using Grouper’s own embedded player, which they actively promote. If you use their standard embed code there is no link back to the page in which it originated (that I can see, and I have checked it several times). In the Searchles player, it takes a few clicks, but it is entirely possible. If you click on the video while it is playing, it will link back to the Searchles TV Channel info page, which has links to the info pages for the individual videos within those channels. Those video info pages have links to the original provider. This type of linking seemed best to keep the Searchles user experience consistent, but we are open to enhancements to the player if the users would like to see something different.

We see Searchles TV as a great way to aggregate videos from multiple sites, and I think a lot of people agree. Rather than potentially stifling innovation, Grouper could gain a lot more out of this by working with us to find a way to make this equitable for both parties. We hope to have a conversation about that.

Chris Seline
aka
dumbfounder

Umm, Mr. dumbfounder, just because I am in QA and don’t trust executive ‘troubleshooting’ or ‘checking several times’ for a hill of beans- try clicking on the video that’s playing in the external player. Looks like that takes you right back to the page where that particular video is hosted on Grouper which gives you a link to report the video. 1 click to get to the link. Yours- 3 and through a pretty obscure UI at that.

So did you reach out to Grouper before stealing their content, or did you just take and hope they would call you? IT seems that working together could have started with you.

This is quite an interesting turn of events here. I agree with the first comment. Why limit it to video?

Nice site! http://www.nccabogados.com/