I’ve been hard on ChaCha, the new search engine that pairs users with a human guide to help them find better results (see this TechCrunch Forum thread as well). I was supposed to meet with the CEO of the company earlier this week but missed the appointment due to the flu. I really want to get their side of the story and present a balanced view of the startup. But for now, I just don’t see how human guides can ever match Google or Yahoo search.
In the meantime, negative tidbits about the company keep hitting my inbox. I came across this post by a former ChaCha guide, which claims that 90% of searches are done by pranksters.
I was also sent the screen shot to the left of a ChaCha search where the guide didn’t know what Digg was, and asked the searcher (original source seems to be here). You can’t expect the guides to know everything, since they’re paid $5 - 10/hour, but you won’t find Google asking you what Digg is when looking for a UK equivalent.
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Mike, I think this is real
http://www.pressesc.com/01171018484_what_is_digg
Also Google doesn’t do a good job either
http://www.google.com/search?q.....S:official
ChaCha will fail mainly for Financial Reasons. People searching on Google try to find useful lnks out of 10+ delivered by Google and in the meantime click on the ads. But as people completely rely on the human guide in ChaCha, How will they make money ?
I am guessing that Cha Cha may end up becoming a market research outsourcing company, kind of like the E-lance model. The only way they can create value is not by doing basic search for people, but by providing more in-depth research services at a cheaper rate than the market research company.
As a marketer myself, I spend a lot of time searching for industry trends; I would love to have someone else do that research for me. However, I need to have a lot of confidence towards the information quality.
I also gave it a few test drives. Poor results and I got transfered twice between agents and nobody could explain why that happened - and yes i had to start completely over with each new guide. I would rather shoot over to yahoo answers instead of sit idle waiting and depending on one person.
Btw, the economics are horrible for the guide as you note. They are only paid when they are actively searching. They can only be paid for 10 minutes per request even if they spend say 30 minutes on one particular request.
also, the guide can only work on one search at a time instead of multi-tasking conversations.
hi mike…
while i have no idea what chacha is, or does… it does point out a potentially useful source of information, that’s not really (to this point) been able to be assimilated.
when you’re trying to figure out who to talk to in a given company, you normally look to the internet, call the corporate switchboar, use something like linkedin/jigsaw/etc…. these are valid, if somewhat cumbersome ways to find the people you’re trying to get.
but imagine if you could figure out how to combine the IM/Email with filtering, so a person could essentially shout their questions into the group, and the person/people with answers to your questions could be able to reply. i’m not envisioning a tool for the mass, but rather tools/channels for a given company.
as an example:
dell could have a system setup, where on the external side, they are more or less listening to messages from the external crowd. on the internal/inside part of the process, the dell employees who’ve signed up to the system would be able to filter messages based on various criteria. an admin would have the ability to restrict certain types of messages to/from given groups/people based on different criteria.
the idea is to be able to allow a person to submit any given message to the system, and to depend on the crowd to be able to give a quick response… this kind of system would greatly facilitate the overall process of being able to get a person to the right person, and the internal users could essentially be able to type into the app while doing other tasks.
an additional strength of this kind of system, is that it builds linkages of who knows what….
a much larger kind of system could also be built for the overall masses….
thoughts/comments/etc…
-bruce
Couldn’t the guide have googled Digg and found out what it is, then moved on from there? Digg.com certainly comes up as the first result here. :p
Oh and Michael - while Googling “UK equivalent of Digg” I came across this link http://www.pressesc.com/01171018484_what_is_digg which might be your source.
…just saw this come in. Thanks for the link, btw.
The guide community aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed. Anyone that puts up with making $2 an hour and actually still sticks up for the company can’t possibly be playing with a full deck. So it doesn’t suprise me the guide didn’t know what Digg was.
I do searches on there occasionly to see if any improvements have been made, but it probably gets worse every time I do. I really should have taken a screen shot of the one that the guy told me to find it myself and called me that racial slur.
I saw that ChaCha was looking to get into the mobile market as well with this and is going to have some sort of voice recognition results. They can’t even get the online system to work effectively so I don’t see them being able to pull that off.
The service just isn’t good. It isn’t quick and the guides aren’t really giving good results. Most of the time it is just the first few you would find on Google.
Well, I think it’s pretty much poo in my opinion.
The idea of asking someone in real-time for search results just adds more steps to the overall searching process. Now, if a search engine were to read my MIND, that’s totally different bag of skittles there hombre.
Basically though, this site is telling you to initiate a live chat, ask a guide for results on a specific kind of site or information you’re trying to find, they use their apparently ‘limited’ or puttered resources to find the answer.
I think the best way to compare it is when I go into a store (not all), but one that isn’t based on commission and I ask where something is or where I can find information on it. I guarantee you 9 to 10 the person makes barely above minimum wage and doesn’t care for what I’m looking for and only wishes to give me the quickest information possible… no matter how broad or vague. This is usually done by pointing to an area of the store and so forth.
ChaCha is the same thing, I don’t see how they would care. It just seems like a pretty ill conceived idea to do this. I can goto Google or Yahoo (google preferrably) and get the results in a matter of a couple clicks.
So it’s either
Google/Yahoo -> Type Search Query -> Hit enter -> Browse results
OR
ChaCha -> Initiate Chat with Guide -> Tell them the information or site you’re looking for -> Get varied results depending on the agent
In all, it seems like it would work for people who may be just incapable of browsing the internet… but if that’s the kind of vertical market it’s after, well, have fun there I suppose.
Either way, it’s no surprise to me that it’s a breeding ground for pranksters, and while that’s uncool to torture someone at their job, they do it for a living and whether or not you find it stupid or funny, you shouldn’t take away from the experience of people who I guess actually find a USE for it.
AndrewB - thanks for the link.
Beats me how one can come up with an idea like this and start a company!!! As Michale said, I’d like to hear a more balanced side of the story. However, from a user’s perspective, ChaCha is plain stupid. Reminds me of .com bubble of late 90s.
Micahel - do you think it is what is happening? People starting companies right and left with no solid business model…
Cha cha - Charming!!!
I think Chacha should scrap the guided search thing and replace it with a chat where the agent will gladly read whatever i have to say and give me an interesting reponse!! Chat for lonely ones,, that sounds like a better business idea!
ChaCha willl go NoNowhere. Besides someone’s web-illiterate grandma (not mine, both of them are aces with the internet), who on earth will find something like this useful? The ChaCha guides would have to be some kind of search engine wizards/masters to really be helpful. Are people really that lazy?
Maybe they should offer SEO training via Live Chat, or some such idea.
Hello Michael,
For one hour I have been tested Chacha. I tried 25 guides testing them to see if they were human or not ( with questions like what is the result of the addition 9+3, who is US fighting against, who was the name of the former french president) only by using the chat. And 100% answered correctly. I don’t know if Chacha will success but I am sure than more than 90% are real human (regarding my test).
Thibaud
Dumb question…. How does Chacha pay income taxes since they can’t afford to pay everyone’s payable rate?
How many people get pay to use Chacha service to get rid off Google?
Nonw.
They can’t get rid off Google.
Oh they ChaCha Guides are real and caring. Here’s my session with one:
Wendy(68788): Welcome to ChaCha!
Wendy(68788): Hello. How are you tonight?
You: ok
Wendy(68788): How can I help you tonight?
You: looking for info on appendicitis
You: symptoms
You: causes
Wendy(68788): Sure, Just one moment.
You: my tummy hurts, so i wanted to be sure
Wendy(68788): Yes, I’ll get that for you shortly
You: thanks
You: how reliable is that info?
Wendy(68788): That is pretty reliable. I’m also getting you info from the mayo clinic
You: ok
Wendy(68788): How is that information?
You: ok, another thing
Wendy(68788): sure thing
You: can i get information for a good doctor in the crofton, maryland area
Wendy(68788): Let me see what I can do for you.
You: thank you, no quacks please
Wendy(68788): what type of doctor do you need?
You: something to deal with my tummy ache. i’m thinking it may be appendicitis. i’m just scared.
Wendy(68788): Is it on your right side only?
You: no, in the middle
Wendy(68788): Sorry - I’m still searching
You: it comes and goes, but sharp
You: OK, thanks.
Wendy(68788): do you have fever>?
You: i’m cold, but don’t know if i have a fever.
You: Is there a way to verify how good these doctors are?
Wendy(68788): Can you call a clinic or hospital and ask for a triage nurse?
Wendy(68788): I’m sorry, I am not qualified to do that.
You: I may call. What’s a triage nurse?
Wendy(68788): Someone who works in the emergency room
You: I guess I should do that then?
Wendy(68788): sorry - I couldn’t be of more help. good luck
You: I wish you were my nurse. You are very caring.
Wendy(68788): Thank you. I’m glad you think I did a good job. When in doubt call someone.
You: Thank you.
In my opinion it’s not all that bad. But it’s definitely not the future of search though.
My “Guided Search”:
> how to spell “elliterite”
My “Guide” Kathy’s first message in response:
> Well. What does it mean?
————
My “Googled” Search:
> how to spell “elliterite”
My Google response:
> did you mean, “how to spell illiterate”?
OK, so I was bored, here’s another session with info on ChaCha Guides:
Kelly(9096): Welcome to ChaCha!
Kelly(9096): Hello! What can I help you to find today?
You: How to become a ChaCha Guide
Kelly(9096): Just a moment while I begin searching. I will be back with some sites for you.
You: You’re a guide, do you need to find that info?
You: Yea, I saw that info, but I wanted the inside scoop from a real ChaCha guide.
Kelly(9096): You do have to be invited by another guide. The second link will take you to a guides forum where you can apply for an invite.
You: Oh cool.
You: How long have you been a ChaCha guide?
Kelly(9096): 6 months, give or take a few days.
Kelly(9096): Is there anything else on this topic I can find for you today?
You: Do you like it?
Kelly(9096): I do. I find it very enjoyable.
You: I don’t want to get too personal, but is the money good.
Kelly(9096): I do pretty well. As you can see from the chacha page, between $5-$10 an hour
Kelly(9096): No commute, etc.
You: Are you a Master Guide?
Kelly(9096): Yes I am
You: How do you become a Master?
Kelly(9096): You have to complete a certain number of searches of quality level.
Kelly(9096): Once you do so, you can obtain master status.
You: Oh, I see there’s an Elite. I thought Master was the highest.
Kelly(9096): Yes there is another level .
You: What level is this guy, Scott Jones?
Kelly(9096): Scott Jones is the founder.
You: Do guides have to drink his Kool-Aid?
Kelly(9096): Is there anything else I can find for you today?
Kelly(9096): I hope these results are satisfactory. If not, you’re more than welcome to come right back to ChaCha and we’ll be happy to assist you.
Kelly(9096): Thank you for using Cha Cha! Have a great day!
You: Is there a training? And how long is the training if there’s one
Kelly(9096): Yes, there is a training, it depends on how much time you have to commit to it how long it takes, you can sort of work through it at your own pace.
Kelly(9096): Thank you for using Cha Cha! Have a great day!
Kelly(9096): Please RATE ME. Thanks for using ChaCha.
Status: Session ended.
BTW, I went to http://www.guideshq.com/invapp2/appproc.php and already received this by email:
Your application has been submitted and you should be receiving contact from one of our ChaCha guides very soon.
TimM
GuideshQ.com
LOL, Adrian. Ok, I’m going to sleep. No more bugging ChaCha Guides, for today.
I’m not a big fan of the ChaCha idea. Well, actually, maybe its not that bad. But its probably more for the general consumer than techies. It would be nice sometimes to get a real human - but they will need to get paid more for their services.
Tried ChaCha
The guides keep on changing
Really useless
I love ChaCha and working for ChaCha. I think the 90% pransksters is FALSE. Yes, there are pranksters but a majority are real people that want real legit searches. Most people don’t come to ChaCha for quickest results or they would just search without a guide. Most of the infoseekers come to have someone do the work for them so they don’t have to. Some come because they’ve tried to find it on their own with no luck. The only searches that get ‘closed’ on are those that don’t have legit searches and would rather ‘CHAT’ the whole time. We are not to ‘chat’ with the infoseekers, we are there to search and assist the infoseeker in finding the best sites to meet their needs. The one poster is WRONG. We don’t get paid for 10 mins. of searching. It is 6 mins. per search and nothing over that if the search goes on. I’ve spent a lot of my own time to help infoseekers if they were legit searches. What I mean by my own time is that I’ve spent 15 mins. to help someone when I only got paid for 6 mins. Some searches get transferred when you ask for one thing, they are found and then you have another search on a different topic. What we do is modify the search and tell you that we are transferring. Personally, I think that infoseekers should know up front to ask for things on same topic and that they have to come back to search for new topics. Why would a guide want to continue to search and not get paid? If they answer the questions on one topic and the infoseeker is happy, then the search ends. But, if the infoseeker is happy and then ask for something on a totally different topic, the guide is to modify and transfer, telling the infoseeker that they are going to transfer. This doesn’t help because they still get mad having to go to someone else and searching again. Other than that, I have no complaints and I think ChaCha is going to last for many years to come. Will it take over google? NO…there is room for both in the internet world so why compare them? People seem to LOVE having a human touch on things! After all, aren’t you all sick of getting automated messages and not a real person on the phone now? Same goes for here. ALL GUIDES ARE HUMANS…….I’m not sure why infoseekers seem to think there are BOTS when it says Human Search Engine!
I use ChaCha all the time and I’ve always had great service and friendly guides.
I use it so others can find what I need while I am at work. I think the ones bashing it are the same ones pranking them.
Just my .02 cents
I think any reasonably smart person should be able to use Google more effectively than having to resort to ChaCha. The guides are not experts in any topic or geography. ChaCha is slower, too. I bet they’re just using Google and relaying the results. I hope they’re using Google for their results.
If you want your searches filtered by someone who most likely knows less about what you’re looking for than yourself, go with ChaCha.
I can see people who are less internet-savvy using this service.
I tried Chacha several times and like the service very much. It is perticular helpful when you can’t simply paraphrase your question in few keywords in google search box. As much as i like the service, I do see some problems with its business model, People do most of “easy search” in google, ChaCha ends up with the difficult ones. High level of difficulty of search and low volume of search requests are probably not a good combination for a model that generates income. However, I do think it is very useful service, how to make money is another question and requires some brainstorming for new model, I don’t people are willing to pay subscription for its current model.
ChaCha uses all kinds of browsers and can open a ton of them at one time to search for your request. Their application allows them to send results from ChaCha.com, Ask.com, Yahoo.com, Google.com, Dogpile.com, About.com, Wikipedia.com, and all the thousands of other search engines all in one place and send you the best results. This in turn is building the biggest and best data base for ChaCha.
Does it have problems? Yes. Doesn’t any new business? Especially one that is still in Beta form.
It is the first of it’s kind and I bet others will follow with this new concept in the months and years to come. ChaCha is in unchartered waters and I think it will and is learning to float. This isn’t going to be a sinking ship.
Try searching a real search and not one made up and see how well you are helped. My searches have all been pleansant, helpful, and exactly what I was looking for.
Why bash it if you don’t like it? Just don’t go back and let those of us that do like it return for all our searches.
@Michael
Once again, Michael. Gotta thank you for the link. That blog is quite new so something like this has really helped me out a lot.
@Dave
Yes it does open a bunch of browsers that you CAN search from, but most guides only look at one of those. Google, or Yahoo. The ChaCha results that show up in the system are terrible. If a guide gave those to you there would be issues. Most of them are paid ads that show up in the ChaCha search window. The results aren’t relevant. Only a braindead guide would click any of them, or post those results.
The world is in Beta. I don’t know of any site right now that caters to people working from home that isn’t in Beta. ChaCha should have been in Alpha for the vast majority of the time they have been Live. Using the term Beta is getting old. Any site that does updates regularly is in Beta. Places like ChaCha just don’t seem to actually test things before they release it to the Guides (Beta testers).
@Ed
You got lucky with that search. Trust me. No one is really saying that every guide on there is garbage, but the vast majority are preyy unreliable. The community goes in cycles. Every time they let guides use invites to get new guides into their network they bring on a new wave of RahRahChaChas. It only takes them a couple weeks to figure out that being a guide is a waste of time and then people start to complain again. Then a ton of guides quit when ChaCha releases another sweatshop policy. So they are back to square one again with a totally new guide community which is clueless.
I enjoyed using ChaCha. There are some kinks to be worked out, but they have produced a different spin on search. They deserve some credit.
So… what is the UK equivalent of Digg?
Nice question Jase…
I enjoy the service of ChaCha, make the boring search with more fun.
Maybe Veirtual Guides would be better at it. 1-2 years and we would have it in the market.
http://www.tekno-world.blogspot.com
Google:
Results 1 - 10 of about 865,000 for Uk equivalent of Digg. (0.09 seconds)
ChaCha:
More than 2:00 minites with no results.
This company is going down
Considering 95% of the searches that come through on my end are “So I herd you leik mudkips?” and “Lemonparty” and “Meatspin” consider yourself lucky. I might see one actual legit search a day. Often times it is just another Guide searching, trying to give us Guides some actual work.
I am happy that some users have actually tried ChaCha and find the service useful.
It would have been nice to see the interview with ChaCha as opposed to another post reinforcing negative feelings.
What is ChaCha’s business model? “4chan + sponsors = profit”?
ChaCha has one great thing which is for people who don’t speak English well, it can be helpful when finding results in English that work for them.
Otherwise… meh.
I was a guide for them almost everyone is a prankster or it’s alearning session. It’s stupid.
they don’t find what they are looking for within the first 10 results of Google- they will go somewhere else- outside the internet and say to them selves that they don’t know how to use computers. Think about all these times that people asked you to look for them for something on the net- it actually happens! Most people can’t explain what they are looking for in the “Google way”. If someone more skilled will help them- they will be able to use the net. Joking on these guides is the same as laughing on the shortest guy in the class- unable to play basketball.
Hey guys, you are not the target audience of such a service. Think about the first time you have used the internet. Most people in the world (as much as it is hard for us to see that) haven’t used the net… ever. People like my mother will enter the net and if they don’t find what they are looking for within the first 10 results of Google- they will go somewhere else- outside the internet and say to them selves that they don’t know how to use computers. Think about all these times that people asked you to look for them for something on the net- it actually happens! Most people can’t explain what they are looking for in the “Google way”. If someone more skilled will help them- they will be able to use the net. Joking on these guides is the same as laughing on the shortest guy in the class- unable to play basketball.
DG, so u expect your mom or someone with zero computer “skills” to go to ChaCha.com, type a question, get some stupid and nonsense results, then try again, talk to 4 or 5 different guides, and after 10 minutes finally get a link that when they click, doesn’t give them anything useful either!!
Cha Cha is just living in some fanatasy world. If they really want to make lives of non computer people easier , they(ChaCha) should provide themInon internet savvy people) a service that they can make use of without using computers at all.
Cha Cha absolutely makes no sense.
Well DG,
I hope for ChaCha’s sake that they quit hiring so many “short guys” to play b-ball.
Well you know I have been a guide since October. And you all that search Chacha for pranks just pays me to prank me. It gets old especially when I give you what you are looking for which is usually something really stupid or adult or not what was originally asked for. If you want information from a search engine you have to tell them exactly what you want. If you wanted to go to google.com and use that search engine you would not type in help me if you want information on mmorph then type it in. You want information then ask for the information that you want. When you guys prank and then we give you the information that you have finally clarified then you give us a bad rating that just upsets us. If you are going to prank then the least you could do is give us the ok rating. We are all HUMAN GUIDES. I am a mother of 4 children I do not care to hear your stupid marriage proposals, your name calling or your demeaning comments about me or what I choose to do with my life. Even if I get paid 5-10 an hour at least I am not on welfare and I am choosing to help better my life and my family. Why can you not understand this? OH yes you can agree the devil made you do it right?
I am so sick of all of the crap from the pranksters and a lot of people I work with have the same feelings. If you allow the search engine to work for you, you will get the results you are looking for. We are all human and can make mistakes but when you abuse something just for pleasure what gives you that right? Why should you feel compelled to do this to the people that are just trying to help you and to give you the information that you are looking for? Please think about this the next time that you decide to play your games and to give your guide a bad rating or give demeaning comments to amuse your fantasies. If you would all just take a moment and think about what you are doing and why you do it the system will work to your benefit. I hope that this note to all gives you something to think about and god bless each of you.
Bucks
Bucks, that’s going to be the fact of life. There will always be pranksters who are there just to have fun with ChaCha. That’s precisely what makes ChaCha a bad business model.
We here at Techcrunch are not trying to make fun of the guides are or anything… most people here are just saying that ChaCha is doomed to failure unless they make some drastic changes. Not sure what those “drastic changes” could be.
I am studying information business in Germany. Recently one of our professors showed us two german library sites, where you can chat with librarians that search for answers for you. I suppose this whole cha cha idea has come from a likewise american library public service offer.
The weak point in cha cha, is not the idea, but the commercialization of it!
These public service offers from library sites, where you chat to get an answer are nearly unkown. So only people who really have a question will get there.
The more people get to know of a website, the bigger gets the percentage of pranksters. That is also the weak point in social web in generell. You can have a great site with a great community. The idea itself does not have to be great, but if the people using it are cool, the whole thing is attractive.
But once the website get’s too popular, the idiots will take over. Youtube for example is nowadays full of spam in the comments. But in comparison to cha cha the main offer the website, does not get hurt through this, as you can still see the videos. Social bookmarking is cool, but once the spammers join, you can still save you bookmarks, but the top 10 lists will suffer a neverending spammer vs. website operator war.
I can not think of a way, how to filter the spammers out of cha cha, because you don’t see the people coming to ask questions. Like people who come to a party, where a bouncer can sort out the prankster. cha cha has - if they want to or not - accept all questions.
In a closed invite system this whole thing would be seen totally different. They should have started quietly in connection with the social aspect of groups of seniors (who are not into this whole technology thing and would appreciate such a service). I mean they still can shut down the public service and concentrate on elderly people, instead of youtube videos implemented into websites, little cha cha chat windows, where the visitors of sites with this audience can ask questions. You even could assign guides with knowlege of e.g. fruit to websites with that content with this concept.
I think that would be great.
service provider of answers
websites can implement chat windows of your company, you have experts for all sorts of things. The websites have to fill out a form and get approved bevor they can use the service for free. Guides are matched to the content of websites. That would improve massively the quality of answers and the satisfaction of customers. The visitors of these websites can ask questions for free. Money could be generated by profiling these websites (which websites demand what) and or starting a premium service, where users have to pay a little fee for answer (that would also keep pranksters out).
So my advice for cha cha after brainstorming would be:
- get the masses out
- focus on small aspects of knowledge
- decentralize the service to mutiple websites with a straight content (like only dealing with pets, children, cars, wellness, shopping)
- get experts for special interest content*
- make search engine advertisement**
*You can even get the brains out of these websites, by offering them jobs in you company. There a lot of people who contribute in wikpedia for free, they should be pretty happy to get paid for offering answers on their favorite website.
**For getting an answer to the topic. Visitors who click on your ads will be referred to a chat window, where they can ask their question. Keywords are connected to your basis of guides, so that only experts in this field will give answers.
Perhaps Google could or should start such a service for all their users, who type in the Google search field things like “where can I get naked pictures of britney spears” or “what is a uk equilvant of digg”
I hope someone got the point out of my comment. My English is not that good to explain such a complex idea of a business model. In addition my thoughts weren’t sorted.
so here my ideas for cha cha once again:
- get the masses out, diversify
- decentralize the service from one site to multiple websites
- focus on thin aspects of knowledge, concentrate on niches markets
- get good experts for special interest content out of community websites
- market the service as a way to outsource or amend call centers
I can’t see it succeeding in the long term. Since the founder is an IU grad and I’m getting my phd there, I’m rooting for him. Here’s a link to an article the IU paper did about the site: http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=38027
It’s not surprising that 90% of requests are from pranksters. After all, it’s free. In other words, there is no cost (monetary) for submitting a bogus request.
In order to get rid of a decent portion of the pranksters the monetary price of the service needs to rise.
Hmmm…I was just on chacha search…and I used a guide. I was looking for this certain Gay Social Network but I forgot the name…but the Guide said he wouldn’t answer that type of prankster question, and he sent me to an abuse page! I didn’t do anything wrong!