Dekoh Delivering a Web Desktop Platform for Applications
Ryan Stewart
50 comments »
San Jose based company Pramati announced its product Dekoh this week and gave me a look around the application. Dekoh’s goal is to bring the web and the desktop together and to give developers the ability to create applications on top of that platform. Those applications can be shared and deployed anywhere in the network. It’s a lofty goal, and with more flexible desktop technologies on the horizon like Apollo and WPF and some more entrenched properties like YourMinis and Netvibes that could do the same thing, I’m not sure it will stack up.
That said, there are definitely parts of Dekoh that don’t exist in other places. Dekoh is built on Java and you can move seamlessly between online and offline mode thanks to an embedded web server. I asked about security and Vijay Puller, the CEO told me that they had configured the port so that only the local machine could browse to it. When you create an account, you’re given a Dekoh portal, something like yourname.dekoh.com and you can add buddies, install applications and share your desktop. It adds an interesting twist of social networking to the webtop space and in the example I saw, you could share photos or invite your buddies to play a game.
The most robust part of the platform is the ability to create and deploy applications. Currently there are a few applications and I believe Dekoh is planning on creating more when the product ships. The one that seemed the most fleshed out was the photo application. It ties in with the friend system of Dekoh so that you could share photos with your Dekoh contacts and manage photo sets. While I think this area has the most promise, I also wonder if developers will take to the product. You can build applications with JavaScript and HTML, so porting existing applications wouldn’t be an issue, but Dekoh needs to find a hook for users that makes developers interested in doing that. Right now this seems like a very developer-centric platform with applications that would be interesting to users, but have been done better other places. For a first mover willing to take a chance, it might be worth checking out. They’re also building out a widget platform which they plan to make available to non-Dekoh users. Their tag cloud widget struck me as pretty cool.
In the end Dekoh is trying to cover a lot of ground by incorporating Widgets, the webtop, online/offline access and home brewed applications. The ideal solution needs all of these to succeed, but I’m inclined to think the more free form solutions that exist are going to ultimately succeed. But throw some productivity applications into Dekoh and you could have a great intranet portal that works whether your at the office or on an airplane. It’s all just a matter of getting the developers to come to the platform. They’ve set up a developer portal at dekoh.org to help with that.
It’ll be interesting who wins this area, but so far I’ve been pretty underwhelmed. I don’t know what kind of work would be aided by this kind of setup– I use basically Skype, FTP and a text editor all day, so I don’t really fit whatever they’re shooting for. I guess what I’m curious about is are they really shooting for anyone or are they just taking a guess and making something kind of cool.
I agree with 1.
My impression is that most people that use these webtops basically just use them as an rss feed reader?
Putting some Apollo/XAML in there would be cool though
I hate Java. There is a reason it never took off for consumer applications, on desktop OR web.
-Zaid
How does one pronounce dekoh? I don’t like the name.
Zaid: Java on desktop was swing earlier which did not take off. Dekoh is written in serverside java. The programming language for the applications need not be java. You can write pure HTML/Javascript, Flash, AJAX, JSP/Servlet and run it on dekoh. Soon we will be putting a PHP toolkit to allow sharing PHP applications on dekoh.
The installation of dekoh platform and applications is one click.
Basicity: It is pronounced as ‘dekko’
Vijay
Folks,
Whether it is Web 2.0 Ajax/Javascript or Java/C-sharp apps you are developing, I have a e-book on building and estimating software. For the product managers amongst you, I have a PRD template. Both are viewable at
http://software.franteractive.com.
Thanks,
Sam
I am so tired of these little desktop things, all with there little clocks and sticky notes. Blech for now.
On another note, any predictions on Microsoftx XBAP stuff ?
Zaid: what was that reason, and how does that apply here?
Seems that Dekoh is trying to cover a large ground with many initiatives at the same time. However it seems like an interesting platform to try something out.
#5 - Are people allowed to access the contents via the web or do they all have to have Dekoh to see the information?
#9 - Viewers dont need dekoh software. They go to yourname.dekoh.net and use the password generated for them to view.
It’s pronounced as : dea kho
I means “see” in Hindi.
I personally believe that a “browser-based” WebOS would NOT succeed in long term - because u need your ur regular OS anyway (topping it would be your browser and then the so-called “web-os”). Overall we see three-tiers in this model.
So the future of OS has to be something which blends all these three-tiers into one. Has techcrunch editors found anything like that???
Manoj: WebOS is a very blurry term, mostly referred to sites that host widgets. OS manages hardware, resources, processes, filesystem apart from being an application devlopment platform. The only thing common between a OS and dekoh is that both have a application programming model. Dekoh supports platform independent open standards like Java, J2EE, Flash, Javascript for application programming. Writing applications on desktop using web standards allows sharing them on the web. Applications can leverage Dekoh provided facilities like tagging, sharing, commenting in their applications.
Vijay
Vijay: So is it something like an online drive on which you can run these open-std applications?
Manoj: Dekoh has 3 parts.
Dekoh Desktop - Desktop installation including web server, extended services and portal framework (4mb, single click installation). This is free and open source.
Dekoh Applications - Applications shipped by Dekoh (photos, books, music…)
Dekoh Network - share applications/content through Dekoh network. When user shares content/app, they become available through user.dekoh.net
Apart from Dekoh applications, users can write their own applications and deploy on Dekoh Desktop, they can also be shared on Dekoh Network the same way. Applications are not uploaded (hosted) on Dekoh network, they will run on your desktop. Dekoh network only facilitates secure routing.
You can read Developer introduction presentation http://www.dekoh.org/presentat.....oDekoh.pdf
http://www.dekoh.org is the developer website.
I realize that it’s easier to do it piece by piece and the programming community needs to learn to walk before it can run, but why is no one developing an OS that ties in to the internet from the moment it comes on? Or is that too expensive/time-consuming?
I admire the work of companies like Dekoh but I think by the time a level of mass-adoption comes, there will be a heavier hitter like Microsoft or Citrix or VMWare/EMC that puts desktop and internet together as one solution instead of simply cobbling together ways for desktop and internet to talk.
the web/desktop interaction seems to be what google apps needs
Vijay: Thanks for the detailed explanation. I’m trying your app now
We think it’s a good idea to share apps inbetween the webtop users, so we implemented the very same idea with xindesk, at http://www.xindesk.com.
If the user develop an application, he/she can share it with other selected users.
However, we remain on the web since we feel it’s the whole point anyway.
Will there be any DRM issue, if user share their Music and Videos with the friends or network?
If Music and Videos can be played across the network then it will be great but still they have to deal with the DRM.
Overall, it looks promising.
Manoj: You are welcome. You can sign-up for getting early access software. It should be out in few weeks. You will get an email notification.
Mikael: The philosophy is slightly different in dekoh. The user keeps all data on the desktop and selectively shares content with chosen people in user’s buddy list. The viewing is still on the web, no need for software install. We beleive uploading and managing online space is not a natural process for anyone. No need to have multiple copies (online and desktop) or share different type of content on different websites. That said, we dont take away the option of using online sites like Flickr, Photobucket…Infact we will be shipping some tools to selectively sync Dekoh desktop content with online sites like these. More such tools can be written for sites with open API.
Saket: Dekoh music application will only stream from the desktop. Copying music is illegal.
Vijay
why not just write a native app????
really, i don’t understand the value of this. you have the web for cross-platform support and smallish data sets, native apps for everything else.
this seems to combine the worst aspects of both (the native app’s need to actually install software, and the limiting display and interraction tech of the browser level). is it a slower native app or a less crappy webpage?
i am starting to wonder why the obsession with moving all apps into the browser. sure if you jetset around to fifty computers a day…but in reality 99% of us use one computer at work, one at home, maybe a laptop also thrown in there. is installing a free email app or office suite that big a deal??
vijay - pirating music is illegal. not all copied music is pirated. see “creative commons”
whoopee: Well, if you want to do anything on desktop, installing software is inevitable. Now comes the ‘limiting display’ ‘crappy webpage’, I think you should see the interface and then comment. AJAX and Flash has made web applications more richer than some traditional native apps. Slow? Web applications are not slow. Even if you did find slow sites it is due to network speed and user load. When you run it on desktop, you dont have either of the 2 to slow your usage.
#24: Copy was in the context of sharing with others.
I think one big challenge Dekoh will have is distribution. I see the primary competitor here being Adobe’s Apollo. That is not a platform that I would want to compete with. They have proven distribution (Flash, PDF, etc.) and are better their future on Apollo.
That is why at yourminis, rather than developing our own desktop framework, we are leveraging the Apollo platform for distribution wrapped with our APIs for web and desktop distribution.
Alex: We certainly dont have the distribution of Adobe. On the other hand there are some key differences I see between Apollo and Dekoh:
1. Apollo apps don’t run on standard web browser (IE, Firefox) but inside their own UI. Dekoh applications run on any browser.
2. Dekoh consists of Dekoh Desktop (software) and Dekoh Network (your own portal like ryan.dekoh.net). You can share content from the desktop and viewers can go to your Dekoh network site and view your shares. I think Apollo does not offer sharing this way
3. Dekoh supports most popular web standards like JSP, Servlet, Flash and AJAX. I know Flash and AJAX is supported on Apollo, not sure of others
4. Dekoh is open source
Vijay
Vijay: Is the Dekoh Network code open source as well? Is there a storage limit for what is placed on the portals? Will Dekoh run on a Mac?
I really think the local/web set-up is the way to go, but the Dekoh Desktop could be written for the Apollo platform as well, could it not? I believe all the standards you listed are supported, but also AS3.0.
Why do companies continue to put Flash on their home page nothing is more annoying to me - then having to wait when i go to a home page of a company for what is effectively an internal ad to show to me.
I want a simple one or two sentance explanation of wha they do -and then maybe a small flash sample on the side - but not as the main box.
Flash on main page is just part of a page. But Adobe Apollo is a whole platform for apps building on Flash/Flex.
#28 Adobe Apollo is itself a web desktop platform. Dekoh can do much the same, I guess. One point being, if one needs richness of flash in their dekoh app, they could use flash as well- along with any other web app technologies such as jsp,servlets,JS et al. Beauty of the Dekoh platform is in in its standards base and in its zero-install auto desktop setup.
In short, a web standards based desktop app platform, with easy setup- much like how a plugin might get setup. An app platform that has good out of the box web2 and collaboration features.
man i hate to see so much work on such a cool concept with such limited practical application. who is going to develop for a platform that is a) proprietary and b) may not be around in a month?
i would like to retract my previous comment after reading another article about dekoh simply because what i thought dekoh did, apparently it doesn’t, and i’m now not sure exactly what it does.
there are some big pieces missing to the dekoh puzzle, which nobody seems to have asked about because we’re still trying to understand how it works technically.
to start with, who are the customers for dekoh and what does it have to offer them? anyone?
mathew: I will be happy to answer all your questions.
#31 a) None of the technologies dekoh offers is properietary
#31 b) Pramati has been in business for 8 years. So expect atleast a more than a month survival :). Well, is life not about little guts and risk? Getting serious, to mitigate as much risk, we have made the whole desktop and application code open source. For community involvement we have setup http://www.dekoh.org.
#32 May I ask what did you think it was earlier and what you do now? I have explained/clarified quite some things in my previous posts on this thread. If there is still something missing I am happy to answer.
Regarding customers, There are:
1. Developers: Who want to write web-desktop mashup applications. There are some ideas on http://www.dekoh.com/build.jsp
2. End users/Consumers: Who want to manage and share media…Some that dekoh ships are http://www.dekoh.com/explore.jsp. Developers on the platform may write more applications and if they wish make it available to others
3. Enterprises: There is an enterprise version that can enable SaaS applications for offline usage. This packaging does not include network sharing aspects. It includes additional modules like database synchronization and remote administration. FYI, Pramati http://www.pramati.com has been in enterprise middleware business.
Is the Dekoh Network(secure routing) code open source as well?
Is there a storage limit for what is placed on user.dekoh.net?
Does Dekoh currently run on a Mac?
“why is no one developing an OS that ties in to the internet from the moment it comes on? Or is that too expensive/time-consuming?”
#16 Im sure there are people if you look really hard.
if you’re interested here is one that i have seen: http://www.ajax13.com/en/ajaxos/
I think the way it works is that these people developed an XUL application for Firefox and when you access the site, you can run their office suite. I guess their next big thing was to try and use document extensions to open the proper web based application from their servers (or the cached version you last used if you aren’t connected to the internet) off of a modded version of Linspire.
As far as the idea of Dekoh, I am interested to see where it goes. #2 is probably right as far as the limited use of the webtop. I think the problem is that there is very little premise….i mean other than the through the browser, the internet is often a layer under list based communication (email, im, etc) I think the exciting part of this here is that people like the developers of Dekoh, Goowy, Zoho and other services, are pushing the envelope when it comes to taking advantage of the internet and its multi-platform communicative abilities; i mean i can see the web the same from my Linux machine as from my windows one. this is where the power lies! Anyone can use HTML, anyone can use JavaScript, and anyone can use the internet; you don’t have to compile and execute, you don’t have to make ports. I don’t know about you all…but im rather excited about how this will play out.
Dekoh, i’m paying attention!
-Charles
bdb: Dekoh network is the website yourname.dekoh.net. It is not software that is downloaded. So it is not open source.
user.dekoh.net will only route requests to your desktop, it will have small small one page UI. So there is not much storage needed there. Soon in our roadmap is caching on Dekoh network. If you have shared a photo album, then the pictures may temporarily remain on the network. We are yet to decide on the size of free cache that will be available to each user.
Dekoh will run on Mac.
bdb: You may also want to look at the FAQ http://www.dekoh.org/wiki/view/DekohBasicsFAQ
I wonder how one gets developers to come to platform? There are already several established platforms, how can one create a new one? The only successful new platform I am aware of is Ruby. Most of the others have been around for a while - .NET, Java, PHP, and Flash. I personally like .NET and am looking forward to WPF. I’d rather be all .NET than diversify into Java, PHP, or Flash. Its just easier as a weekend hobbyist.
David: Dekoh is based on ‘established platform’ as you mention above. If you are any of Java, Flash, Javascript, HTML/CSS…developer you dont have any learning curve on Dekoh. You can run your existing applications or write new ones using the same skills. The advantages of using dekoh are:
1. Get additional web 2.0 style services like tagging, sharing, commenting…
2. A portal on the desktop to manage all applications, contact list, shares…
3. Easy way to share your content/application to friends/family thru Dekoh network
4. Package your application and showcase it to larger audience on the Dekoh gallary (if you wish)
5. Use other Dekoh provided applications and maybe try out other user applications
The best incentive should be to make money out of it, everyone wants to make a living.
At http://www.xindesk.com we allow every developer to own their code/app (all rights included) to port/sell to others (xin runtime runs on every asp/asp.net server) as long as we get to keep one on the desktop.
That is, we offer a fun enviroment to create apps that have at least one client lined up already, and at least one advert up already, since it’s part of the xin desktop and thus showcased to all it’s users automatically, and that’s *two* of the biggest initial problems solved right there for anyone wanting to launch a webapp.
If the app had been restrained to the desktop only, a major advantage would have been lost for a developer, and if it doesn’t show up at all, nobody will know it even exists, and unless he/she owns it, they can’t make any money out of it elsewhere.
So, the best incentive, besides sheer creativity, is the option to move on if it proves successful.
Vijay,
I liked the concept very much.my internet service provider gives me global IP,so i share bigger files by placing them in the webroot of apache and give IP address to my friends.
I’ve only one doubt.If I publish my blog/photos on myname.dekoh.net,it would be accessible only when my machine is turned on and connected to net,its quite likely that that links in RSS wont have 100% uptime. do you plan to seamlessly move the data to some central server in the background ?
Kalyan
Dekoh just published a comparison to Apollo, read more here:
http://webwebusability.wordpre.....be-apollo/
Kalyan: First version will work like IM. But next version we are working on something that is not exactly uploading all data but something that has a solution to 80% cases.
Guys you must look at http://www.ip2connect.com
I have seen their application. It is a cool intranet application ideal for home pc’s, sme’s and professional; and offers a lot of things for free. I guess it can be used alongside any application running tomcat (including dekoh).
I’m a Web host, and I think Dekoh can renovate the Web hosting industry by integrating desktop with the Web. A whole new way of hosting and sharing of documents and media is possible with Dekoh. With it, we can make more money too. I would love to see Dekoh at http://www.hostingcon.com this year in Chicago.
I have registered with ip2connect.com They provide a genuine peer to peer connectivity from one pc to another without a static ip. I can store and share my patients records and files without having to have them reside in any other third party server, even as cache.
This free utility is a big breakthrough for all PC users indeed.
#46 John and #47 Mike:
We at Dekoh are very sure there would be numerous ISV opportunities and partnerships. We intend to get working hard on that, once we get the release out and cusumers start liking it.
Already a good bunch of ISVs have gotten in touch with us through the Early Access program. We would also be meeting many of them at the upcoming Web2.0 Expo and JavaOne expo.
As Mike says, Dekoh opens the opportunity for individuals to host thier application on thier own desktop. This is useful in many ways. The main utility could be, when a developer, SME or a startup ISV wants to test market thier product. They can simply host the product on thier own development platform, share it with select group of people, get the user-following in place, before looking for large scale hosting center.
Guys I have already hosted a sample page on my desktop through ip2connect.com When I am online, you will find a link at ip2connect.com or if you have my link code provided by ip2connect, you can see my link page.
If you download their server version and install, you can have your own chat server, eoffice with a variety of functionalities all very handy and useful tools for everyone including commercial applications.
I am able to share all types of media files with my friends at the same time with ease.
check out their site and test it: login detail are available at the page.
http://www.ip2connect.com/ip2c.....key=owtsar
John, the difference between other approaches and Dekoh approach is that it is based on existing java based web programming approaches. If you can build a web application, you can now build a desktop application. And run it on any desktop that has just a browser (dekoh manages the installation- automatically. on first access). So now one can build desktop apps, create mashups, blend desktop resources with the web, and more using just Java (or PHP).