Adobe’s Apollo Provides New Ground For Entrepreneurs

January 28th, 2007 at 2:27 am

To me, this just screams new risks for security, I’m not sure I want my web applications to have “close integration with the operating system”.

January 28th, 2007 at 2:59 am

I stringly think Apollo’s security concerns will far outweigh the novelty of integrating web applications with the operating system. Delivereing ad words to the desktop may sound sexy in the abstract but most users will yell bloody murder when it happens.

Remember all the buzz was about “e-commerce” a few years ago? Some of it was real, but e-commerce also turned out to be a euphemism for spam. People don’t like getting ads in their in-boxes.

In the user’s mind the operating system is a private space while the web is public. A platform designed to mix them up would have to deliver a lot more than this to become acceptable.

January 28th, 2007 at 5:32 am

“gives web developers access to things like the file system”

Replace ‘web developers’ with ‘russian hackers’ in the previous sentance and you will have a good idea of what I think about Apollo.

January 28th, 2007 at 6:15 am

If the rich/interactive web stuff does take off, Microsoft’s WPF/e will more than likely be the platform of choice. Adobe ruined their chances of getting people to willingly download a runtime with the suckiness that Acrobat has evolved into, and the floating ad bonanza that Flash has become.

Granted most people aren’t volunteering to download the WPF/e beta runtime either. But WPF/e will probably end up being included in future versions of IE, Windows, .NET Framework, etc.

And secondly, WPF/e is just a subset of XAML which is used for the Windows Presentation Framework technology on Vista (and backported to XP). So anyone working on the

January 28th, 2007 at 7:05 am

Java Web Start has been doing this for years.

By sneaking this in with Flash, they might be able to get some broader adoption.

Their new Javascript/Actionscript VM (donated to Firefox recently) makes it look like they are aiming for Java / .NET turf.

January 28th, 2007 at 8:13 am

So is this a development of (Macromedia) Flex or what?

There’s been a lot of corporate developers’ interest in Flex and, despite some of the comments above, Adobe and Flash stuff is nice and clean to use compared to the lock-in which is .Net.

So anyway - where’s the beef here? It’s all froth.

January 28th, 2007 at 8:18 am

I love Flash, and have even written 5 best-selling books about it for Macromedia Press (I’ve since retired from writing about it), so please understand that my comments are based on personal observation.

With my passion for Flash, I’ve been involved with a lot of interactive/multimedia projects in the past, and while from a geek standpoint, some were just outright cool, I’ve found that the target market is increasingly becoming more along the likes of ‘Homer Simpson’.

I feel that Web apps are catching on like crazy due to their simplicity and the elimination of hassles such as ‘installing this’ or ‘upgrading that’. Homer doesn’t care for that kind of stuff, it’s too complicated.

Homer can remember a username and password, and with that in hand, Web apps open a world of functionality to him from within a single source (his browser).

Homer doesn’t want his computer cluttered with icons from different apps.

Homer doesn’t want to worry about ‘runtimes’.

Homer wants a quiet, easy life.

In other words, I personally DO believe that the desktop is on a downward spiral. It’s not dead (we still can’t replicate Photoshop), but give it time.

I think most geeks will love Apollo, but I’ll continue to focus my time, money, and resources (including Flash) on Web apps - Homer (who pays the bills) likes those.

Derek

January 28th, 2007 at 9:31 am

for now i regard apollo mainly as a cross-platform competitor to proprietary widgets

January 28th, 2007 at 9:40 am

I’ve been running an Apollo-based app on my machine at work for about 5 weeks as part of a test. My company has hundreds of millions of users, literally, not figuratively speaking, and our IT department has an extremely tight security policy.

In terms of ease of use, if Homer can download a file over the web, then click “Run” or “Open”, he’ll be in business.

And yes, it is an extension to Flex to a very great degree (that’s simplifying it a bit though).

I don’t see this post as a fluff piece or PR Push for Adobe. It’s just seems like an article by someone who seems excited about a new product. I don’t know if Apollo will be the next big thing or not, but it’s certainly on my radar.

January 28th, 2007 at 9:54 am

…I meant, ‘Skip Intro’ *desktop* apps.

It’s Sunday, give me a break!

Not only that, but my Indianapolis Colts are a week from a Superbowl victory.

I’ve got a lot on my mind.

Derek

January 28th, 2007 at 11:13 am

Adobe gonna call it Adobe AIR. As in Airhead. As in Nike Air. Could they be any more self impressed??

January 28th, 2007 at 11:39 am

Hey guys, I slept in today so I didn’t see this until just now. The security concerns are a big deal for Adobe, and from what I can tell that is priority number one for Adobe. It it something to think about? Of course, but realize they’re focusing very heavily on making sure “Russian Hackers” can’t take over your computer with Apollo.

January 28th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

@Huw

> So, why is using apollo better than having an application stored locally and
> running through the web browser, perhaps like Blake Ross’s parakey is
> intended to be?

I was not aware of Parakey. Thanks, now I know about it. It sounds cool to me. Since I don’t know much about it, I can’t really compare it with Apollo.

> Does it provide features for RIA other than those found in a browser?

Yes. A runtime that would work across platforms (mobiles also?) and would enable you to develop things using existing skills (HTML/CSS/JS/AS/Flex etc). Ofcourse, out of box component framework, APIs (File, preferences, storage etc). Apollo would prove to be platform for Occasionally Connected Client (OCC)…

@Timothy

> To me, this just screams new risks for security, I’m not sure I want my
> web applications to have “close integration with the operating system”.

That’s a challenge and good problem to be solved. And believe me, there are smart engineers sitting in Adobe, who surely take care of it. They have well managed the security-concerns when it comes to Adobe Flash Player, I am sure they would do the same in this case. We have to wait and watch.

@Dean

> “soon-to-be-released” and “pre alpha” - surely some contradiction in
> terms there?

Where is contradiction? Both statements are true.. Release could be anything (public-alpha, public-beta etc).. These days we even see gamma

@Hasan Jafri

> Delivereing ad words to the desktop may sound sexy in the abstract but
> most users will yell bloody murder when it happens.

I agree with you. Do we blame browser when we visit a page full of ad-words? Do we blame browser when we by-mistake install some crappy toolbar? Awareness and Knowledge would solve this. Browser/runtime can just provide a good security sandbox… It all depends who is making the application and who is using the application..

@Paul

> Replace ‘web developers’ with ‘russian hackers’ in the previous
> sentance and you will have a good idea of what I think about Apollo.

Right. Security sandbox gotta be good and there should be application-signing process… I hope, this thing would be taken care of.

@Kevin

> So anyworking on the next gen of client Apps using XAML will be
> able to create rich internet apps pretty easily as well.

I doubt, if it can be developed or deployed cross-platform?

@Darren

> I think its interesting considering one of the guys behind it was
> behind dotnet.

You mean, Mark Anders?

@Derek

> Homer can remember a username and password, and with that in hand,
> Web apps open a world of functionality to him from within a single
> source (his browser).

Homer prefers to save some username and passwords in firefox because he can’t remember all. Homer can still access same web-apps using browser or via-Apollo-version, nothing stops a single app being run from both of these. I believe, I would be able to deploy single app in both metaphors..

> Homer doesn’t want his computer cluttered with icons from different apps.

Homer decides what to install and what not to.

> Homer doesn’t want to worry about ‘runtimes’.

Homer does install things that help him to do things faster. We do have Flickr offline uploader or outlook or Flash Player or Quick time or Firefox extensions.

> Homer wants a quiet, easy life.

It would be with Apollo He can do things faster and better..

> If he has multiple computers, that means multiple installs.
> He doesn’t like that hassle either.

Homer has a laptop and he works offline. He wants his work to be synchronized whenever he goes online. He wants to read feeds offline, etc etc.. That’s where OCC comes in picture.

————-

I am also trying to understand Apollo.I can imagine many use-case where it would fit good. I don’t think it’s intended to replace browser rather provide a better platform to deploy kick-ass applications that would make developers life easy and provide better experience to users.

eLearning, RIA, OCC, Dashboards etc are some of the use-cases. I love Firefox, I want to write things in XHTML/JS/AJAX/CSS but I spend more time thinking about different platforms, browsers etc not because I am not good at developing but I am more concerned about consistent user-experience… I want my users happy, that makes me happy.

And guys, Apollo is still under-development, it would be released, it would evolve and get better. This kind of discussion surely helps in improving product, even though I am not Adobe guy, I thank you

January 28th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

XUL. Simpler. Easier. Only needs notepad.

January 28th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

Derek, I do like the Homer analogy, but I think that you may not actually understand him all too well. A lot of Homers like to leave their house, and they certainly don’t all have Internet access wherever they go, on the train, in the car etc. Just looking at a single one of the advantages being offered here… Apollo gives you a way of caching large amounts of data on the desktop (and synced automatically across multiple desktops, to avoid the problem you mention of multiple installs), so this would mean I could access the last month of Gmail emails, or a few key areas on Google maps, something that browser cookies cannot do - and something a web app cannot do when I’m not connected.

Essentially it’s adding some reach and power to web apps, not taking away from them, indeed you could have your existing Flash web-app run in Apollo, and you are too right, there’s no need to abuse them with skip intro starts (or even splash screens). I am trying to switch to Google calender from Outlook, but it’s not as rich which is quite jarring (it doesn’t just *work* unlike the desktop app, because it is built with old technologies like HTML which don’t make for a pleasant and fluid experience that people look for in software. Conversely, my Outlook data is prone to hard disk crash, or lack of being able to access it (or at least search it) easily when I’m out and about (Exchange is not the same). With something like Apollo bridging the gap here, I can have the reliable, no corners cut rich experience I would have on the desktop, but I can run and log-in to my account anywhere I go on any machine running Apollo (installing that if necessary), which I like an awful lot as it bridges the gap without sacrificing any of the functionality.

January 28th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

Sounds a very promising platform. If the Web 2.0 declaration that the desktop is dead proves to be false (which I think it will for now) then Apollo will succeed and we should see some great developments based on it.

January 28th, 2007 at 8:06 pm

Sounds like Cross platform WPF (avalon)

January 28th, 2007 at 11:36 pm

WPF certainly seems like the stronger offering. Microsoft definitely understands developers MUCH better.

January 29th, 2007 at 5:45 am

one step at a time. Look at Windows Live Search (http://wls.live.com). It is implemented in Java much better than Google Maps for mobile. You never know what might happen.

January 29th, 2007 at 8:47 am

Re: Marcus

“standards: gooooooooooooood!
proprietry standards: baaaaayd!”

Good point. I’m not sure exactly where you’re going with the point, however.

Bear in mind that many of Adobe’s recent actions have been geared directly in support the open source community. Remember that they made the single largest contribution of codebase to the Mozilla foundation a couple months back when they opened the Flash player to the development community.

In the last few days, they’ve done the same thing with the PDF format and are attempting to get ISO approval.

In light of their generous and obvious support of the open source community and standards compliance, I wouldn’t be as concerned about vendor lock-in with Apollo as I am with Microsoft’s WPF.

January 29th, 2007 at 9:37 am

Anybody remember Macromedia Central? Swap out “Central” for “Apollo” on that page and it’s the same thing (on paper).

January 29th, 2007 at 11:34 am

The funny thing is Director has been able to do this and more for years now. I don’t see anything that Apollo does that Director can’t do with ease. You can embed or wrap Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox, Flash 8, DVD video, Windows Media, Jabber, Quicktime, RealPlayer, Havok, etc…, the list is extremely long and there is support for JavaScript dot syntax. You can create custom window shapes for all the windows in your application, not to mention Director’s 3D and animation capabilities. I’ve done exhibits at museums around the world that receive thousands of visitors a day and Director performs beautifully. I’ve done 3D multiplayer games projected onto glass displays where visitors man Happ joysticks at one of the largest theme parks in Florida. Over 1200 people a day on average play the game 365 days a year. Director drives the overhead plasma scoreboards showing in game action and top scores to visitors waiting in the queue. The game has been running for over 4 years without crashing. I guess what I’m saying here is why use Apollo?

January 29th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

My mistake - you said Central not Contribute. In that case you’re right :), my apologies…

Apollo does indeed look like a (significant) evolution of what may have started out as MM Central.

January 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Director Is DEAD

January 29th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Director is not dead, Director 11 is in beta due out first half of 2007.

January 29th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

# Nemrut
Isnt Javascript notoriously insecure? I recall a discussion where certain spam sites are using Javascript in a way to track user behaviour of unsuspecting visitors.

Also, hasn’t there been more media coverage about turning JS off within the browser? How does this affect Apollo development…

January 30th, 2007 at 2:22 am

Why go with an untested environment which people won’t have installed on their PC when you have a Java virtual machine on every PC?

Get real….

January 31st, 2007 at 6:42 am

This sounds really lame. Pre-alpha already near release? At least it’s web 2.0 savvy.

As for using HTML/PDF etc for desktop development… give me a break. It’s already possible to build cross-platform applications using GTK2/Glade and your compiled/scripting language of choice. Ruby even has a demo where you can build your own web browser in 15 mins (using Gecko of course).

HTML is a document standard, not a GUI interface. To use it as such is theoretically a “hack” of sorts. There are far better and more mature platforms for building even simple GUI applications. GTK2/Glade has to be amongst the most simple I’ve ever used.

Adobe needs to get a head-check.

March 1st, 2007 at 2:40 am

Some of Apollo futures are available right now!
Check out {mdm} [http://www.multidmedia.com/]. Their product - ZINC, offers great integrity with desktop..

March 7th, 2007 at 11:56 am

Okay, so Homer doesn’t like to download stuff because it takes away from donut time. Still, Homer has a job (sometimes). At his job he has many tasks, milestones, calendar, etc.

This is where Apollo makes a lot of sense. A corporate app. that helps you accomplish work related goals. The app. allows you to continue working in a normal manner even if you are using a laptop in the park, synchronizing data when you return to the office.

I don’t think it is a big deal that Homer and his buddies like using a browser at home. The apps built for business, which might need to incorporate many web servers’ data within a single dashboard, are needed now. Apollo should help with that.