A Place For Lonely Searchers

I can’t help but notice the similarity in branding between Lala.com, ChaCha.com and of course Coca Cola.

That’s not even taking into account the wierdness of their names:) Chacha actually means “uncle” in Hindi. And Lala is a proper firstname.

-Zaid
(wanna be a beta tester? http://cardboard.typepad.com/c....._be_a.html)

sounds cool…I used a certain search engine where there is an actual person talking to you and performing actions according to your search..don’t remember the name exactly..thought this was it at first but it’s not.

I just became a guide (a couple of days ago) and you get to pick keywords which you are good at. I think it is a great idea for many idiots out there that don’t really know what they are looking for; they basically can find an informed person who is able to help them out.

Everything really is cyclical isn’t it?

Just when we develop huge server farms that will take the repetitive labor away from trivial tasks then someone decides to humanize it again and inject people into the mix. I just don’t see how this could scale well at all. If they grow as big as Google how do you support that with human chat?

Interesting, but ultimately doomed I fear.

Wow, great business they’ve got here. I tried it out:

—-
Search words: rednecks having sex on top of a bear video

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: DonaldH
DonaldH: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello donald!
DonaldH: Hello!
You: I saw a video a while ago. Two people shot a bear out of a tree and then had sex on top of it.
You: I think the title was “rednecks have sex on a bear” but I can’t seem to find it.
DonaldH: my name is Donald i’ll be seraching for you!
You: thanks. I really can’t remember what video site it was on. not youtube… something else. Maybe metacafe?
DonaldH: Ok great I’ll search!
You: any luck?
You: hello?
DonaldH: While I am searching, have you had a chance to look at the relevant links at the side of the page?
DonaldH: Hello
You: yes, but they don’t have the video I’m looking for.
DonaldH: Still searching
DonaldH: Are these results sufficient?
You: no
DonaldH: Still searching
DonaldH: May i transfer you?
You: transfer me where?
You: nevermind, I found it on google. would you like me to send it to you?
DonaldH: To another guide more knowable to your suject!
You: oh, okay… sure.
DonaldH: Thank You!
Transfer: You are being transfered to another guide who can help you search even better!
Looking for guide …
Status: Connected to guide: alysonj
alysonj: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello alyson!
alysonj: Hi, what can I help you with today
You: Thanks, I’m done.
Status: Session ended.
—-

Cliffs: This reminds me of the stupid kind of ideas what would get handed millions of dollars in the 90’s.

Tom - is that an actual transcript? Did the guide really mention Google?

I won’t throw this idea in the bin yet. But for sure ChaCha needs to work more on carving out a niche userbase of folks new to the PC or the very elderly or the very young. Some niche might just adopt it and spread it by WOM.

But I doubt ChaCha can bank on techies adopting it and then passing it on to nontechies. In this case it would have to be from nontechies to techies.

-Zaid

I’ve tried ChaCha a few times, but I had a few people who are less proficient at web searching give it a shot and tell me what they thought.

Even they said this was too slow of a process and takes away the point of search engines. Instant, Fast, You’re in Control.

Nice people over at ChaCha no doubt, but I’m not sure if this one will catch on.

One more thought: If i could call up someone from my mobile and they did a search for me, THAT might be handy.

Mike,

Yes, that’s an actual transcript… but that was me who said I found it on Google. The search results they were sending were completely irrelevant. I’m surprised they even continued the conversation given what my search was for.

My wife has been a ChaCha guide for a little while. She’s made well over $500 so far (yes, they pay the guides - I didn’t see this mentioned).

Oh, and they do pay. You cash out whenever you want, $2 fee per cash out.

Fashion Industry Ceo,

Was it Webhelp.com? I think they used to do human assisted searches…

@Michael Arrington

Using Google is common for ChaCha Guides. In the ChaCha Guide program Google appears for every single search category - you click it and it will show you the results.

The Guide then just find the one he thinks suits you best - highlights some text on the page, then clicks “Add Result” and you see it on your screen.

@Tim:

How much do they pay guides? And on what is payment based?

@Paul

Guides are paid based on how many searches they perform successfully. The minimum is 67 cents per search and guides make on average between $5 and $10 per hour.

There is no way these guides are real people. AIMBot was doing this years ago…

The payment is based on time spent during a search. That’s why they’ll talk to you forever - it’s not that you’re cool :). The rate is based on a few different levels, depending on experience. You can make anywhere from $5 to $12 an hour or so if you had constant searches, which doesn’t usually happen.

My wife makes $50 to $100 a week just doing it during regular web surfing times though. It has its busy times and not-so-busy times.

There are good guides and bad guides - and good searchers and bad searchers. There are times that you can really help someone find something. Often times though, it’s full of prank searches (you can imagine) and lots of “are you real????” searches.

It won’t last. She cashes out at every $50 thinking it’ll bust any day. You never know I guess.

I think ChaCha is a neat idea but it may not be economically feasible if it keeps paying 67 cents or more per help search.

@Jimmy James

They’re real. While software could certainly do something similar, the low quality of answers you get on a regular basis should clue you in to the fact that you are most certainly interfacing with some good old fashioned wetware.

@SearhTheWeb2

Well - they have more than enough advertisements to pay it off. Especially when the first 5 results of most searches are advertisement (not the guided searches). Look closely and you’ll see ‘Spnsored by’ - I wonder how many of those get clicked.

The genius, if any, of Chacha is that they’ve created a semi engaging platform to deliver not only arguably better results through the guides, but also to engage you with ridiculously high CPM video ads. With the CPM’s being paid out today to highly focused inventory, affording the guides might be pretty simple.

based here in indy… they are doa man…

I saw a local newspaper article about them today, surfed their blog… they plan to start paying people to refer their toolbar…

hmmm

I’m thinking this service is not valuable to anyone with even minimal tech-savvy. Yet, I’m imagining this service being a HUGE plus to my 83-year-old grandmother who, bless her heart, attempts to use the computer to do something other than just check her email on AOL.

@Joey

Yeah - Guides get $1 per month for each person they convince to install and use the ChaCha toolbar. I have the ChaCha Guide program installed - I can attest to the quality of that software - it sucks.

I won’t even let Google install a toolbar - definitely won’t let ChaCha.

But yeah - $1 per month per person - and the top 111 Guides that refer the most people get stock options.

Is the money that they are burning on guides coming from the VC funding? How do they plan on monetizing the service when each search costs more than a standard CPC ad?

As for the cellular phone search market - Awesome idea! While I won’t use ChaCha for desktop search, I would definitely use it for mobile search. Being able to either call or type something on my keypad and then have one relevant result would be pretty sweet.

> You: nevermind, I found it on google. would you like me to send it to you?

That sums it up.
Why would anybody use ChaCha?

Drew:

The Auburn help line is such a human search engine. 334-844-4244

I found out about it last summer watching a Braves game and trying to figure out how many wins Smoltz had with my phone browser. My buddy just called it up and got a person to search via computer.

Go figure.

@adam

If the only geniune use of this search is for people that can’t use google (i.e. your 83 year old grandmother), I don’t see how their ad revenue can possibly be sustainable as these would clearly not be the kind of people that will complete transactions online.

If this company can actually make money with this model IMO it’s a sign of a very badly bloated ad market, not a good business idea.

> If the only genuine use of this search is for people that can’t use google (i.e. your 83 year old grandmother),

IMHO it is often quite difficult for non-tech-savvy people to chat. It would be better if you could go to their website, click “call a guide”, talk to the guide by phone/skype/sip/whatever (voice) and the results would appear on your desktop.

Anyway, I would rather teach my grandma to use Google. I have found the chacha results totally irrelevant most of the time (but the questions were tricky).

Tom,
If an average pay is below the minimum wage, how do you expect the quality of answer?

@Joey,

“based here in indy… they are doa man…”

Yea, you are right. Anyone not on the west coast is screwed. Well, guess all programmers in the midwest should close up their computers and start farming corn. Them thar hicks can’t speakish the english and darn well shore can’t program any thar language.

/sarcasm

I have more fun talking to SmarterChild on AIM:

Amit (6:42:04 PM): shut up
SmarterChild (6:42:04 PM): You shut up.
Amit (6:42:10 PM): you’re an idiot
SmarterChild (6:42:10 PM): Uh… Are you trying to insult me?

I tried it out - the guide ignored me for about 15 mins.

I have an idea on what they are doing. They use the guides to create human entered (with no spam) results for most search terms.

Once they have tons of data matching search terms and search results (which are all graded incidentally by the user) ChaCha then stop paying the guides (or reduce their payments)… and use the core data they retrieved to create an good search engine and results set. This does scale. No humans required at that time (except to keep the results pruned)

All the press coverage about Wikiasari a couple of weeks back had angles relating to user generated search results….. and how to get it to scale… well looks like Cha Cha has the answer - maybe?

All they are trying to do is stall you for as long as possible so they can shove ads down your throat.

I think this idea has some potential but the size they have anticipated to grow is just way too big for the search traffic they are going to receive. The linking policy is absurd too. I think in the end a downsizing will end up happening but the company will keep going for those who either don’t want to search or who can’t. Only time will tell.

Kris Karkoski

They should use some of the money to get a new (and original) logo

I have just tried to search some keyword related to technology in this site.
I really wanna tesify the result by “Search With Guide” and how easy and convinent it is. However I am disappointed since there wasn’t any answer at all beside the first greeting.
I don’t think that all query is guided sufficiently by people but there is some methodlogy to inform alternative because I couldn’t find any proceeding at such situation.

Pretty helpful and friendly in my conversation. Not sure that this can possibly last, but I know a few times when I was absolutely unable to find what I needed. Here is the transcript:

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: KarenB
KarenB: Welcome to ChaCha!
KarenB: Please be more specific as to what you’re looking for on this topic.
You: Modern study on cloning that examines both sides of the story from a reputable sourcew ould be great
Transfer: You are being transfered to another guide who can help you search even better!
Looking for guide …
Status: Connected to guide: MelissaB
MelissaB: Welcome to ChaCha!
MelissaB: Hello
You: Hi!
MelissaB: What can I find for you on this subject?
You: I am looking for an article from a reputable soruce that provides a comprehensive exmaination of the cloning/stem cell research debate
MelissaB: ok Just one moment please
You: Ah, very nice. Today on the news I saw an article about a recent development that didn’t involve embryos. Any info on that?
MelissaB: Yes! Just a moment please. I thought that was a very exciting development
MelissaB: Is there anything else on this topic I can find for you today?
You: Ah, perfect! Just a quick question: do you work directly for ChaCha then?
MelissaB: We are technically independent contractors I believe

good luck.

I envision a “Clerks 2″ scenario where most search terms are entered by dudes like Randal who are looking for a donkey show or high quality ass-to-mouth content. To cater to this demographic, perhaps there should be two enhancements to the service:

1. Ability to request a guide of a specific gender
2. See a picture of your guide (to make finding MILFs easier)

P.S. If your mom is seeking part-time employment, I would not recommend sending her this opportunity.

I’m all for human-powered search (I’m the founder of Bessed, a new human-powered site with a very different model), but Cha-Cha seems like it simply slows you down in your search. If you want something difficult to find AND find a guide who has specific knowledge in addition to his/her ability to quickly search Google, that’s useful. But the quality of the different guides has to be all over the board, so most searchers would end up frustrated.

Using it for mobile would be interesting, though. Something like the Free-411 maybe—you call 1-800-cha-chaa to ask your question and they make you listen to a 15-second ad before giving you the search results you want. On second thought, maybe not.

BoomShaker - good ideas. Look for webcams next.

LOL. This is such a dumb concept. No words to describe how stupid this is. And it won’t scale. And oh, it’s so f**king dumb…

As Michael just wrote… a good gimmick may be a site with cams.com-like chicks sitting in a room all day half naked helping you find stuff online.. Or porn-guided browsing. LOL. Shit this idea is good. I think I’ll be coding it all night. hahaha

Hehe - someone bought http://chachapranks.com/ already.

@Michael: yo man, can you pay some Indian 5 bucks to code something quick that will place a cookie with the Name/Mail information at the comment section? My name is really long to be trying it each time

http://img141.imageshack.us/im.....ledol0.png

gotta love their memory…

And yes, this is real:

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: RichardK
RichardK: Welcome to ChaCha!
RichardK: Hello
You: Hi
RichardK: What would you like to know about chacha guides and search engines
You: I’m trying to figure out if ChaCha guides use Google for their searches when trying to help people, or if they actually use ChaCha
RichardK: Hmm well I use ChaCha for common searches, but Google for really hard to find stuff, since we are guides we then can categorize those websites so now ChaCha will come up with them
You: cool, thanks!
RichardK: So we sort of steal the best from google…

Well I suspect the pranks are going to be getting more outrageous and creative. I started a thread on the forum for people to post theirs.

http://forums.techcrunch.com/f.....8;tstart=0

You didn’t imply so, but I just want to be clear that mine wasn’t a prank. I was curious, and I think the info about ‘categorizing those websites’ is interesting.

Sorry for the double-post, but this has tons of behind-the-scenes info from one of the “guides.”

http://wahsis.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CF43132E903C193D!167.entry

I’ll only quote part, for fair use reasons:

“When you become a guide you select three “keywords” you are interested in. HINT: Keep these simple and broad. When I first started I had “auctions online” but found I got promoted much quicker using just “online”.
After picking the three keywords, you “train” through training searches. You will not get paid for these but if you make sure you have set everything correctly in the java application, you can reach the “Pro” level within a few hours at most.
When you reach the “Pro” level, you will begin getting paid. You will also be able to accept searches outside your three keywords if no one else takes them. I found this very easy later at night or early morning when less Guides were on.
After being rated “Great” by live InfoSeekers atleast ten times on your keywords, you promote to “Master” and can build a network and add more keywords.
During certain peak times, ChaCha will pay $10 per hour to Guides and pays $10 to the “Elite” Guides (another promotion past “Master”).
You get paid anytime you have money built up by hitting a “Pay Me Now” button. I use the ChaCha debit card that you can sign up for and it transfers immediately minus a $2 fee.”

Saw this site a while back… I like the concept, but don’t think this will last too long.

I’ve played around with ChaCha for awhile, and honestly I’m not impressed with it at all.

Take away the guides, and the ChaCha search engine has a good service, but with the guides.. it’s just useless.

I’ve just stumbled upon a search engine called Gokita.com and it’s simple, nice and doesn’t have any ads (that’s their policy - no ads according to the site) on it’s search results page. The results are bookmarkable with del.icio.us, and previewable with Snap Preview.

What more do i need? Love it.

ChaCha should just do well in it’s search, forget about the guides, just offer suggestions which can beat that of Google’s suggestions, and that will be great!

Maybe they plan on eventually being search without chat, but want people to categorize everything first? This could be a way of doing that while making the website popular at the same time?

I’m with number 16 above. All the transcripts I’ve seen so far wouldn’t pass the Turing Test. Even if these aren’t bots, it’d surprise me if they didn’t start to go down that route.

I had to return something to IKEA several months ago and they had a similar tool to this on their site, but they actually said (in little letters) that it was a bot. The bot totally nailed my questions and responded just like a human should/would. Bot technology is marching on, and I can’t see human hand-holding working in search in the long term, unless the guides are allowed to be shills or something.

This is classic. It won’t displace Google but it sure serves as a great source of entertainment. I’m amazed the investors didn’t take this for a test before putting money in. But thanks to “ChaCha: Your Online Pimp”, my company is well on its way to raising $5 million. See below:

“best escorts in silicon valley”

Status: Connected to guide: MichaelM
MichaelM: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hi!
MichaelM: Welcome to ChaCha! Please wait a moment while I search for your results.
MichaelM: Thanks for being patient! Rest assured I’m finding the most relevant results for your search.
You: great. i need to find the best escorts in silicon valley to show some venture capitalists a good time so that they’ll invest in my new company
MichaelM: great
MichaelM: I will find that for you

The links he gives me are sanjoseca.gov/prns/grants/hnvf/Cycle7ApplicantListfromdatabase.asp and metroactive.com/papers/metro/09.27.01/escorts-0139.html.

You: these links are no good. i need a list of escorts under $500/hour preferably with photos
MichaelM: okay
MichaelM: will do my best
You: thanks. i’m counting on you. my company needs to raise $5 million by next week and i hear this is a great way

Finally I get escortintroductions.com but then this is followed by palmbeachpost.com/business/content/news/special_reports/scripps/c1a_SCRIPPS1_0627.html. I think MichaelM was working on more than one search!

MichaelM: Are these results sufficient?
You: yes. escortintroductions.com looks great!
You: thank you michael!
MichaelM: Anytime.

First, there were us lonely bloggers, now we have lonely searchers .

“where to buy blood diamonds”

Status: Connected to guide: MikelI
MikelI: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello
MikelI: Hello
You: i saw that leonardo dicaprio movie
You: blood diamond
MikelI: And you want to buy the movie?
You: and i hear blood diamonds are really cheap. i need to get a 10 karat diamond for my wife
You: so i need to find the best place to buy some blood diamonds direct
MikelI: Alright I will try to see if I can get some results for you.
MikelI: I myself have never heard of a Blood Diamond.
You: i guess they are diamonds from africa where there are wars
MikelI: You seem to know more than me but that will tell you anything you didnt know.
You: yes this link is about them. i need to find where i can buy some online really cheap
You: my wife is going to leave me if i don’t get her a big diamond ring and i can’t afford one from these guys in brussels
MikelI: Thats horrible I’m very sorry for you situation.
You: yeah. i lost a fortune in the stock market during the last .com bubble
You: she was used to a different lifestyle
You: so now i need this even if i have to buy a diamond somebody was killed for
You: otherwise i lose the wife and kids
MikelI: I dont know if that link will help. I hope it does.
You: no this one is certified. can you find me travel links to sierra leone or liberia?
You: i might have to go there myself
You: to get the best price
MikelI: I will try to find some results for you then.
MikelI: From looking around I am not entirely sure you can buy them offline at all.
You: ok
You: but if i can get travel information for sierra leon and liberia i can probably meet somebody there
MikelI: Orbitz and Expedea are supposed to be the cheapest travle services.
You: great. thanks! i’ll book my flight now
MikelI: Is there anything else I can help you with?
You: nope that’s it
You: thank you
You: hopefully i will get the diamond and keep my wife
MikelI: Well I really hope you can get things fixed up.
You: never invest in these damn internet companies! they ruined my life!
MikelI: Sounds like good advice.
MikelI: Good luck to you.

Mr. Bezos might want to listen to MikelI.

“stalking lindsay lohan”

Status: Connected to guide: HeatherC
HeatherC: Welcome to ChaCha!
HeatherC: Hello, what can I help you find today?
You: hello. i am in love with lindsay lohan
You: can you help me find her?
HeatherC: I can find you some great sites about her.
You: will they tell me how to send her a letter? i just know that if she gets my letter she will want to date me
HeatherC: I could probably find you an address for fanmail.
You: that would be great
HeatherC: Does that help you, or would you like me to keep looking?
You: wow that’s great. when lindsay and i get married i will tell everybody that you made it possible!
HeatherC: Well, thank you!

“cleaning stains from underwear”

Status: Connected to guide: DonaldP
DonaldP: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello
DonaldP: How are you doing today? Please hold while I search that for you.
You: my 15 year old son has incontinence problems and leaves a lot of bad stains in his underwear
You: i need to find a site about how to get them out
You: clorox bleach doesn’t work
You: wow this is great
You: thank you!
DonaldP: Would you like for me to find more information on this topic?
You: no i’m going to try this tip out next time he makes a boo boo

“how to pick up married men”

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: KarenM
KarenM: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello
You: i am looking for info on how to meet married men
KarenM: Hi
You: can u help me?
KarenM: i sent you a site
You: wow this is great. thank you! my husband is going to regret cheating on me!
KarenM: LOL..Good luck but maybe try single men they are the best
You: been there. done that. it’s revenge this time!
KarenM: Well good night and take care

Weird ethics. They’ll help you try to locate blood diamonds, stalk Lindsay Lohan, cheat and clean sh*t stains but don’t try to evade taxes:

“how to commit tax evasion”

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: KatieH
KatieH: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: hello
KatieH: Session ending due to restricted content
Status: Session ended.

Somebody just wasted $6 million.

This is fun. I’ve challenged one user:

Status: Looking for a guide …
Status: Connected to guide: HectorR
HectorR: Welcome to ChaCha!
You: Hello
HectorR: Hello user.
You: Are you here to help me?
You: I’m having a hard time finding the parents of Sergey Brin
You: At least, their name
HectorR: of course.
HectorR: Ok, give me a sec.
You: Alright
HectorR: I’ll see what I can do.
You: Ok.
HectorR: hmmmmmm…….
HectorR: I don’t think…….
You: lol
HectorR: His parent’s names are public.
HectorR: Oh, you prankster you.
You: There are, I’m pretty sure about that
You: Okay, well I know the answer
You: I was just challenging you
HectorR: I failed.
You: Eugenia Brin
HectorR:
You: for example
HectorR: Where’d you find it?
You: Well
You: On answers.com
HectorR: lol.
HectorR: Yahoo, huh?
You: and you can also find it on Sergey Brin’s stanford profile
You: Google
HectorR: His father is Michael lol
You: Yes
You: Indeed
HectorR: I needed to look deeper.
You: http://infolab.stanford.edu/~sergey/
HectorR: I didn’t go there.
HectorR: I just typed…….
You: Well alright. I’ll give you a thumb up anyway
HectorR: father sergey brin on google.
HectorR: Thanks.
You: Yes, works too hehe.
HectorR: You’ve been so nice.
You: Have a nice day;
HectorR: You too.
HectorR: Thank you for using ChaCha!
Status: Session ended.

How do they make profit, anyway?
Suppose, (well just suppose!)
1 Million visitors head to chacha.com in a single day, which means 278 visitors per second. On an average, if one visitor takes 2 minutes for querying, which means 33334 guides must be online everytime. Considering each guide works for 8 hours a day, then total number of guides becomes 100 thousands!

I played with this site about 2 months back when a friend of mine told me about it. I also saw them mentioned on NYTimes, BusinessWeek about 2 months back. Let me tell you the site was unusable and I still cant figure how the CEO, Scott Jones, was able to launch such a great PR campaign.

One piece of advice for startups - hire their PR guys or talk to Scott about building awesome hype about your company.

@ All the pranksters

I absolutely love getting pranksters as a Guide - it’s an awesome relief from the redundant searches over and over and over again. Plus, pranksters tend to stay in the chat for twice as long as a real searcher would - this means I make more money.

Please continue to prank - I’m sure I know where every single picture of tubgirl and goatse is by now…

“This reminds me of the stupid kind of ideas what would get handed millions of dollars in the 90’s.” - Tom

Tom - Classic post. The key thing here is “money to burn”…have cash, will spend.

DO NOT do a google image search for “tubgirl”.. THANKS Michael Wales!! I nearly lost my breakfast. JESUS!

Why would you use this instead of calling or chatting with someone at your local library? So many libraries are offering chat research help now (e.g. http://www.spl.org/default.asp.....o_ask_chat)

Next thing we will hear, is ChaCha is outsourcing the work to India. That’s about the only way the model can actually work.

Interesting. But I would rather be IM’ing with other users who are running similar searches. Wouldn’t that be more “web.2.0?”

Namaste and Hello

We the independent trekking guide of the Nepal .. Is there somone really going to come nepal and want help for the trekking ,rafting ,climbing ,jungle safari and sightseen any part of the Nepal .

Please contact to me without hesitation
dio-nepal@hotmail.com