>Scoble, your repeated assertion that because the fundies here are asserting their concern about the subject at hand (porn) they must not be engaged with the moral concern foremost in your mind (poverty), is the same fallacy that whatshisname was asserting earlier with the sex/violence false dichotomy.

OK, prove me wrong. So far many minutes have been spent here telling us we’re all filthy heathen for even talking about a porn site.

The bible has about 200 times more mentions of poverty and other human conditions. It’s pretty clear to me as a reader of the bible that God doesn’t care about sexual acts all that much (and, even when he does, he usually cares when they are part of a larger social condition).

So, have you spent the proportionate amount of time worrying about those other human issues?

In my experience: no.

>If your idea of “upstanding” is someone who owns and operates a porn site…WOW!

I’ve met many people who’ve owned porn sites (including women). One time I was on Leo Laporte’s radio show talking about video streaming. After the show someone sent me email asking for help with her streaming video server. I met up with her. She was an astute businesswoman in San Francisco. I asked what she did with her video server and she told me she had 40 employees who were doing video sex: all women.

She was very “upstanding” and countered a lot of the images above that this stuff hurts women. She thought it was a great way to feed her family.

[deleted]

>Have you ever actually sat down and talked to a Hindu or a Muslim?

I’m married to a Muslim. So, yes.

Well Arrington has started deleting all my posts.

He is obviously clueless to the irony here. The “fundies” are always criticized for advocating censorship, yet when the chips are down, who does the actual censoring?

I’m outta here. Enjoy yourselves.

What is a fundie?

A fundamentalist. Which I’m not.

I thought you were leaving?

“She thought it was a great way to feed her family.”

That’s what the convenient store robber says too!

Ok…I have my “web 2.0″ racist site in the works…now I’m going to start my “web 2.0″ site for thief’s, thugs and pimps!

Hey, Michael Arrington will cover it and it’s a great way to feed my family!

Oh man…Brilliant!

[deleted]

Also, this post mentions they have not raised any funding. Why would funding be needed for this? It looks like they have a complete product and if they can’t generate revenues from a porn site fairly quickly (especially when they’re not producing any content themselves), then they might have a problem. Furthermore, when you talk about funding in terms of a startup, I think most readers think institutional funding, especially considering that TechCrunch is typically reviewing “traditional” startups. Outside of some foreign and/or non-traditional “angels”, I can’t see anything like this surviving the due diligence of a professional angel or VC. The legal liabilities are just too great.

I’ve got to hand it to you Michael. As more and more people start calling BS on Web 2.0 and the number of truly innovative services (or services with actual business models) being reviewed continues to slow, you’ve managed to keep TechCrunch hopping by becoming a Google critic, asking people which superhero they are and now the granddaddy of them all, posting about an otherwise unoriginal porn site which has started the battle of comment armageddon. Pure marketing genius.

Oh man, Robert Scoble rocks. New found respect for the man.

Drama - Thank you?

Obet - yes, Robert Scoble does indeed rock.

>That’s what the convenient store robber says too!

So you’re equating someone who flashes their skin at a camera and plays with that skin to a convenience store robber?

That demonstrates EXACTLY what is wrong with religious thought today.

Like I said, you folks simply are not rational and having a conversation with you is simply not possible.

I can’t believe I used to be like this, either. I apologize to humanity for my sins.

Michael, there seems to be a lot of people trying to silence you because they think pornography is bad. Please don’t follow these people, I’d rather not read a blog that bows to people like that, and I think you’re not a person like that, which is why you put this up in the first place. =)

Owners of the site (I think one of the posted in the comments already): please work on the navigation, it’s very confusing as the top main tabs usually navigate to sections of the site, not just sections of your profile.

Drama 2.0 - you have a couple good points but I’m pretty sure that I’m covered from the legal side. EroShare is a hosting service (ISP) by law. I’m not a lawyer, I only can interpret what I have heard at my university.

Don - good point. I have to drop someone off at the airport. I’ll get to work on that right after that.

Robert,

No, I’m comparing the owner of the site that promotes this garbage to the robber.

Like I said before…there is no difference between what you think is good porn and what you think is bad porn. It’s all in the same boat. Not only are these porn rings that kidnap 15, 16 and 17 year old girls and boys forcing them into performing sex acts for their own profit…some are eventually killed or left for dead…many go into poverty because they are so messed from the experience…which it sounds you care a lot about so to fix the leak you need to plug ALL the holes.

A lot of the people who produce the “good” porn produce the “bad” porn behind closed doors. So promote one and you promote them all.

Oh and I’m done with this discussion and with TechGarbage. I will let whoever get the last word.

If this is all Michael has to promote then I won’t be missing much.

Note to self, start weblog, focus on porn, religion, politics. Just add readers.

3. PROFIT!

The one single thing I love about porn, religion and politics is that they are marketspaces so PREDICTABLY moved and trafficked. Strong opinions, lots of dollars. I don’t care if it’s God or Jenna Jameson or George W– the results are the same.

We are all numbers and have been tabulated.
Please drive through, your order will be ready at the second window.

Garbage: I bet you’ll be back. One thing I’ve learned about people who say they’ll let others have the last word is that they usually incapable of doing just that.

>Like I said before…there is no difference between what you think is good porn and what you think is bad porn. It’s all in the same boat.

Like I said before … you all see the world as black and white. It’s cool that you see the world that way, but I see a world filled with colors.

The fact that you can’t see the difference between someone who does, say, child porn, and someone who takes pictures of consenting adults, makes me wonder about you and your “morality.”

You buy shoes, right? So you can’t see the difference between a pair that was manufactured by a 12-year-old and one that was manufactured by a 30-year-old?

I can.

But, then, I see the world in colors.

Eric: let’s start a political site together!

I get a 10% finders fee.

Oops looks like quite a bit of conversation has already taken place. Probably you might just want to take note that this site is visted by different kinds of ppl. Not just “fundies” and liberals but also teens. You dont expect such a news propping up in cnn when you’re kids are watching right?? So probably next time use wisdom. Yes internet is more of a free place but that does not mean you have to use it the way you wish

what i meant was the photo had to be censored!!! Imagine that propping up in your reader and your mom sitting and watching your monitor …. *faints

Friend heard of terms like Glasnost and Perestroika, Society is becoming Global Village and villagers only wear skimpy clothes. Anyhow there is a thin line between the exotic and the erotic.

Say What Friend,
http://www.tekno-world.blogspot.com

Michael: you’re gonna do the porn part for 33%.

Blogger: my mom had Penthouse under her bed. Imagine what happened when I found THAT!

Florian: I would suggest you get an attorney ASAP. It would be a shame for you to find out that the “I have nothing to worry about because I’m an ISP” defense hasn’t always worked. When it comes to your bank account, reputation and potentially your freedom, you don’t want to be “pretty sure”. If you’re not an attorney, you should not be interpreting what you heard at your university and considering that to be a valid legal opinion. You should be paying competent legal counsel to be giving you their professional advice. I am not an attorney, but I know somebody who thought about creating a service very similar in nature to yours and after being warned by several attorneys (he thought he’d keep getting second opinions until the forth or fifth attorney told him the same thing), he canned the idea. You face two major issues:

1. Illegal content. I do not know what the definition of an ISP is when it comes to the hosting of illegal content, but you may want to look up the case of BuffNET, an East Coast ISP that was found guilty in a case back in 2001. I believe the legal implication of this case was that when an ISP becomes aware of illegal content, it must take immediate action or it too can become liable. Whether a court would consider you an ISP is beyond me, but at the very least it seems to indicate that you’re going to have quite a policing and monitoring task if your site becomes popular. And of course, when it comes to illegal content, I think there is much less sympathy and leeway than there might be when the dispute is over copyrighted content.

2. Copyrighted content. You probably face the same potential legal issues as a Napster, YouTube, etc. Just because you may comply (or claim to comply) with the DMCA doesn’t mean that somebody won’t sue you. You should do some research on Perfect 10. They have sued companies like Google, and I believe they won a partial injunction against Google in early 2006. In your case, you are actually hosting and directly displaying the images and might reasonably be considered to be directly profiting from the images (whereas Google was simply including Perfect 10 images hosted on infringing sites in their image search).

Again, I would advise you to protect yourself by hiring an experienced attorney. The legal issues in the porn business are serious and even though you’re in Europe, I wouldn’t underestimate the cooperation between law enforcement in different countries that occurs when it comes to illegal content. You may be on the right side of the law but if a deep-pocketed content provider or a government agency comes after you, you’ll need a lot of money and good attorneys or your chances aren’t very good. I wouldn’t expect foreign residence and the ISP defense to ward off a costly legal fight. Again, I’m not an attorney and nothing I’ve written should be construed as professional legal advice, but as somebody who thinks he has some level of common sense, I’d advise you to take some cash and get a lawyer. In my opinion it’s the best investment you and your company can make at this point.

PornoTube? I thought it was called YouPorn? Or is that yet another YouTube spoof?

What is this the attack of the Steves, Morsa & Mcdonald (wow both have same initials) on Tech Crunch? huh?

Steve Morsa- get a life and stop preaching, have you been living under a rock or what?

I like the “spy” feature where you can see who is doing what at real time, like stock price streaming. Real cool.

Did he just tell Mike to get an attorney?

/me *dies*

> there is no difference between what you think is good porn and what you think is bad porn.

There have been many well-publicized cases over the years of ministers breaking the law by embezzling funds or taking sexual advantage of young members of their congregations. I had always thought they were just an unrepresentative minority. Now I realize that their offences are merely symptomatic of the evil at the heart of all organized religion. Thank you for opening my eyes, Garbage.

Drama: thanks a lot for your concern and advise.
I will take it to heart!

I know where the liability ends for a host - but as you wrote the content can be reached directly via eroshare.com. My first idea would be that the same laws apply as to a forum for instance. From what I have learned it depends on if it is moderated or not.

But as you suggested I will have a lawyer look into this.

14 comments by mike,
i have not seen a post on which mike made more comments than on this one:)

“Eroshare is based - where else - in the Netherlands”

Mike, I hope the “where else” is based upon the liberal and humanist tradition of my country (where we value individual freedom very high) and not on the more common impression of The Netherlands by many Americans.

I’ve read all 135 (so far) comments to this story and a few things strike me…

Comparing porn to robbing a convenience store, appears to (ahem) conveniently ignore one major difference: porn is legal (in most places), robbing a convenience store is not. End of argument.

Comparing “general” porn to “kiddie” porn: again, one is legal and the other is not. But, if we’re going to talk morals, one involves consenting adults who freely (in most cases) induldge in an activity and receive payment for doing so, the other involves the abuse of minors. Not seeing the comparison there either.

I’m an aetheist and when I read the black and white comments from some of the ‘Christians’ writing above (without doubt some of the most ‘unchristian’ people I have ever heard from), I realise why I have the beliefs I do; these people believe that anybody whose views differ from their own are wrong (fair enough) and must have their opinions changed (not fair enough).

Debate requires intelligent discussion; when your view point is based entirely on faith then there is little debate that can be had.

Ross

Grrr….

Drama 2.0 appears to be adopting an attitude of many xeonophobic Americans (I assure you this isn’t targetted at the vast majority, just the idiots).

“…even though you’re in Europe, I wouldn’t underestimate the cooperation between law enforcement in different countries that occurs when it comes to illegal content. You may be on the right side of the law but if a deep-pocketed content provider or a government agency comes after you, you’ll need a lot of money and good attorneys or your chances aren’t very good. I wouldn’t expect foreign residence and the ISP defense to ward off a costly legal fight.”

And, er, on what grounds can a foriegn law enforcement agency come after the citizen of another country if no laws in their native land have been broken? So, er, yes foreign residence is a fantastic defence cause last time I checked the US doesn’t have ‘world police’ powers over citizens of other countries. Yet.

Ross

Garbage and Robert: Don’t call it child pornography. It is child abuse.

@Ross Brown

To you, Scoble, and all the people who hold your flawed views:

Please stop using blanket statements.

“These people believe that anybody whose views differ from their own are wrong (fair enough) and must have their opinions changed (not fair enough).”

Wrong.

Nice straw man. Next.

“Debate requires intelligent discussion. When your view point is based entirely on faith then there is little debate that can be had.”

Get off your ivory tower.

If you’re seeking intelligent discussion, stop incorporating logical fallacies all over the place. How do you expect people to argue with you if you’re misinterpreting their positions?

It’s weak, lame, and absurd.

Congrats eroshare!

Nice marketing angle. Hope to see you guys in Vegas.

Rob Sanders - It’s both, to be honest.

These discussions always seem to start with the predicate that porn is Big Business, but it’s not. At least not compared to ice cream, recreational fishing, or beer.

Am I allowed to comment here?

To all commenters who disprove of pornography: rise and shine, sleepy ones. We’ve been in 21st century fur over 6 years now, it’s time to stop dancing with the moral skeleton, read a modern research or two on the subject.

The specific arguments being used to criticise this are interesting: “God doesn’t like it” (argument from authority) and “porn is all about children being raped and women enslaved” (assertion of false facts). There are plenty of intelligent and factually accurate arguments again porn (not that I necessarily agree with them) but none have been put forward yet - just ad hominem attacks and laughable fantasies.

There are huge numbers of perfectly well-adjusted young women (and men, but the gay men who’d be watching are a smaller market) who are quite willing to do on camera for money what they’d do anyway on a Saturday night for fun. GGW doesn’t even pay participants, does it? 50 years ago nice girls wouldn’t have behaved that way on a Saturday night (or ever), but now they do, so in that sense porn is a symptom of the way society has changed and people have become more sexualised and… oh, sorry, for a moment I thought this was a political blog. But do read the NY Times editorial on ten-year-old girls doing Bouncy Knowles dance routines in hotpants.

It does seem to me that there is a sizable market opening for ‘fixing’ the internet porn user experience: to do something that is neither overly techie (waiting 5 hours for bittorrent DVD rips), expensive (subscribing to content sites) or scam-ridden (subscribing to content sites, link farms loaded with malware, etc.). Surely this is how a lot of malware spreads?

I suspect a lot of the money is made by through copyright violations, and this UGC business gets around that rather neatly. But what about all the (professionally produced) content that is already around, but swamped by all the scammers? There must be some more aggregation models (no pun intended) here.

As another former cult member, I too must tender an apology for once spreading polarised thinking. It interests me that Christians have been the source of most of the invective here.

To use “porn” as a label so convenient and simple that one can be “anti” or “pro” lacks sense; to attempt justification of such a simplistic view in an equally simplistic and absolute way is almost unbelieveable.

Media is content neutral, and even specific types of content can be ethically unbiased at root. There is a world of difference between the depiction of a consensual sexual act and a snuff film, yet both are porn, and likewise a big difference between the people who produce them, yet both are porn producers. No matter how many times you says there isn’t a difference, it will still be the case and porn will be a whole lot more complex than Gabage and the Steves want it to be.

In my religious upbringing and thereafter, one of the things that people with anti-porn views have consistently failed to explain to me is why sexual imagery is harmful. I await a coherent justification, which certainly hasn’t been offered here.

My experience is that any distortions I picked up from (mainstream) porn in my early teens were:
1. Absolutely insignificant compared to the great big scars inflicted on my sexuality by shame and ignorance borne from fundamentalist “morality”.
2. Cured, along with aforementioned scars, by sexual activity and other (comparatively rare but increasingly common) forms of pornography that present sex as a positive and loving thing.

I’d like to be able to demolish anti-porn arguments at their source, but given the number of hours I once spent with a bible going in rhetorical circles on doorsteps, I doubt it’s possible. For shame, Garbage, Steve and Steve, the stats, research, experience, crime figures and honest inquiry are all stacked against you.

I just wanted to point out to Steve that the BBC voted Richard Dawkins the Man of the Year.

This is EXACTLY the definition of a blog! (in reference to http://www.techcrunch.com/2006.....of-a-blog/)… BTW - how many URL’s did I click on so that I could go to someone else’s blog to continue the conversation? None!

I just read through all 149 comments and enjoyed every moment of it… Rock on Mike and Robert, you guys brought up some very good points.

Like I said earlier, TechCrunch is “web 2.0″, and the site reviewed falls into that category. It’s just like news - you may not like what you see, but it’s still news.