Preparing For Apollo

December 16th, 2006 at 3:08 am

I see lots of potential for anything that requires a decent uploading tool. It’s the one major thing web browsers really suck at. There is no progress meter (built in), you can’t upload more than one file at once, and you have to select each file individually (instead of an entire folder). To top it off there’s no resuming if you get interrupted. Uploading in a browser couldn’t be worse if it tried. (Side note, wouldn’t it be so easy for browsers to implement a progress meter?!)

Flash8 allows selecting multiple files and a progress meter which is a promising start.

Really the key benefit is it’s going to make multi platform, desktop like applications so much quicker and easier to build. At the moment, the same stuff is possible, but just so much more work developing for 3 different platforms.

Could this succeed where Java failed?

Tim
http://advertise.free.on.bla.st/

December 16th, 2006 at 5:47 am

Hi Rajeev,

“In India”?? How do I parse your sentence? Are there no entrepreneurs in India? Or do you mean to say “Waiting for a technology to mature by initial usage by early adopters happens only in India”??

Adobe got Applets right through Flash. What we were missing was decent HTML integration. The Apollo HTML integration into the rendering pipeline leaves Java in the Dust. Hats off to these guys. Eagerly waiting for the public release. Hope it turns out to be as ubiquitous as Flash!!!

December 16th, 2006 at 7:46 am

For some the whole concept reminds me of Macromedia Director.

December 16th, 2006 at 8:48 am

Nice to see this big heads-up to the tech community on RIA’s (rich internet applications). There’s a lot going on this space with Microsoft Expression, Laszlo Systems (and the OpenLaszlo they tossed into open source), some stuff IBM is working on and, of course, this good stuff from Adobe.

Couple of relevant posts if you’re interested in knowing more about this since, as Mike says above, “It could be the technology to watch for 2007″ and I sure think so:

1) http://www.iconnectdots.com/ct.....oming.html
2) http://www.iconnectdots.com/ct.....net_a.html

December 16th, 2006 at 9:28 am

I feel Apollo will be a key technology in bringing RIAs to enterprises.

December 16th, 2006 at 10:36 am

I can’t wait. This will change the way we develop and deploy software projects.

December 16th, 2006 at 11:56 am

What does “cross-operating-system” when it comes to Adobe? Will I still be seeing, as a Linux user, “please upgrade the latest version of whatever by clicking here”, then I click and am taken to the Adobe site which says the latest version is the version I freakin’ have?

I guess “rich internet application” means flashy web2.0-esque stuff, like rounded corners, pastel colors and apparently “transparent windows” (?!).

How is this all different than just a new implementation of a web browser with all these extra features/extensions built in? Or start up a web server on localhost and you’ve got “off-line” capability for any “web based” app. The server app, running on localhost, can do the syncing up with the server when you’re back on-line.

December 16th, 2006 at 12:16 pm

Apollo is not only player in the market. Microsoft WPF/e is a cross platform mini-me version of XAML/WPF engine. Comes up with full integration with Visual Studio, Javascript and HTML.

December 16th, 2006 at 1:12 pm

Ramana - You answered my question before I could ask it. I was going to ask if Microsoft had made any response to the Adobe Apollo platform, but it sounds like they already have it live with WPF. I am just starting to explore .NET 3.0, but I am hedging on WPF taking the market share rather than Apollo. .NET is a nice development platform and I plan to stick with it, its always good to have competition as it keeps Microsoft on its toes, but at this point unless Adobe is able to offer something extremely innovative I don’t have any intention of dropping .NET.

December 16th, 2006 at 2:59 pm

The one major advantage I see here is being able to perform tasks offline then have them sync up with the website when they have an internet connection. Imagine you are going on a plane trip and you want to work on some stuff for your project, but it a web app only. What if you had an Apollo version where you take all information to your computer, go on the plane, do your work, get to an internet connection and you can sync everything up.

December 17th, 2006 at 12:17 am

@ Jerry
“April 21 ‘06:
* Zeepe 7.2.4 is on release *

This release also fixes problems using the zeepe:browser element after Microsoft Update KB912812 has been installed.”
Thanks, but no thanks… I’m not gonna upgrade that stuff everytime microsoft releases another band-aid for some bug. I have more confidence in Adobe releasing something than in MS releasing something IE-based…

December 17th, 2006 at 1:20 am

What is the criteria, as a developer or company, you choose the target platform/runtime for your applications ?

1) Ease in development
2) Portability (cross-os, browser)
3) Ubiquityof runtime/platform
4) Commitment of the company/community behind that platform
5) other factors?

I have not looked at MS WPF/E, I am curious to know how can I run my existing web-applications in that platform without much effort?

I know about Apollo so I can say that you can run any existing web-app (HTML/CSS/JS/AJAX/Flash/Flex/OpenLaszlo based) in Apollo without any effort, if you want to take advantage of Apollo’s APIs you might need to modify or write a light-weight wrapper, but not neccessary…

I would rather watch these technologies and choose the one which solves the problem-in-hand and provides a better and smoother experience to users.

-abdul

December 17th, 2006 at 3:38 am

Microsoft has a ways to go to prove they can do something cross platform.

Flash on the other hand has worked on Linux/Mac for quite some time and still gets updates when the version is bumped.

One could hope Apollo follows suit, given Adobe/Macromedia’s track record in this area.

Adobe also has a mechanism for getting this onto people’s machines via their Flash distribution channel too, that channel is pretty damn efficient at getting people onto the latest version, if my Google Analytics stats are to be believed.

December 17th, 2006 at 7:44 am

re: dave

“Flash isn’t available on my platform, power pc linux”

Dude, that’s what you get when you pick a funky platform. Linux has

December 17th, 2006 at 10:30 am

I’ve written several books about Flash for Macromedia/Adobe Press in the past (haven’t for a couple years now), and I use Flash practically everyday.

However, I personally see a shift leaning toward Web apps, and less interest in downloadable apps, as Apollo seems to push (this assumption is based on a brief review).

I’ve ventured into both territories (Web-based, and downloadable apps), and people are becoming more and more interested in accessing applications via a simple bookmark than they are having to download and install, download and install.

I mean, the apps that are demonstrated above do nothing that couldn’t easily be done using a Flash-based Web app. Why would I want to download and install anything?

My money, in most cases, is on Web-based applications. Of course, there will be a need to download and install apps like Photoshop for the forseeable future.

Those are my thoughts, unless I’m completely missing something.

Derek

December 17th, 2006 at 1:50 pm

So it begins…

(i’ve been waiting for someone to say that)

@Derek - I see a lot of apps moving online but at the same time there are advantages to a desktop app. For example, files system access. There are certain apps, for example, image manipulation apps, where there is a disadvantage to having it online, as you mentioned. You would have to upload the image, use bandwidth while making changes, share the cpu of the server with other users, etc.

The reason I originally, as developer, chose to work with Flex is that whatever application I wrote, would look the same and run the same across platform (including linux), cross browser. Now with Apollo my apps can be cross-connected ™ all rights reserved blah blah blah jk. Your app works online or offline.

And so far since I’ve been working with it, its fast to develop and it makes sense (html is a hack remember) and I don’t have to worry about anything but the app.

“Apollo - now with browser begone!”

#13 Lemon - There is a real language in it and a new engine. I don’t know the intricate details of the engine but it is 20 times faster than Flash 8. The same test in Flash 8 that takes 20 seconds before now takes 250ms. Apollo will be at least this fast. But regardless of what I say, I’d like to see the same app created in WPF/e (windows page fault / error) next to the same app in Flex / Apollo. (Man this is like the console wars all over again).

But what do I know. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

December 17th, 2006 at 7:46 pm

What a hoot. Flex is here, AJAX is here. WPF isn’t anything but a beta/alpha rather product. It may be cross platform one day. Browsers are here today… but Apollo is the runtime that will enable AIR (Apollo apps) to run on your platform. Features will drive the market. You WPF guys are SSSOOOOO missing the point. Apollo runs on a desktop in connected and disconnected modes. But the strength of Apollo is that it is capturing all of the presentation layer and putting it on the desktop. Then the desktop app stores some things local, but only uses the internet for transfering data, pictures and other true content. (Forms and web pages are filled with HTML… and this does the same thing for the web that CSS did for reducing bandwidth.)

This type of app isn’t about building better desktop apps (not yet at least). This is about building specialized apps where someone who interacts (networks) with a given sight/community on a regular basis will have a “BETTER EXPERIENCE”. His pages will load faster and if fortunate he will be able to use the AMF technology unique to Flash right now to make the data even smaller. So not only will he not waste bandwidth, slow his user experience and bog down the server with a presentation layer… but the data packets are typically 1/6 the size! (What size are the data packets with WPF, I haven’t heard so maybe that will be added also… it’s possible, but that is a clear advantage right now.)

In Conclusion… There will still be the web side of business, HTML/AJAX and Flex apps… but for special tasks there will be those who package up better experiences into Apollo apps. And all us web developers know we tone down the experience now to save bandwidth. With Apollo apps we can build top of the line experiences for our key user base!

December 18th, 2006 at 7:48 am

JulesLt, you are thinking of design in MS/Dos terms. You don’t put the close app or the close key into an Apollo app. Those are part of the runtime and (according to my understanding) will not be part of your design. Other than that your design will be like designing a web site. It’s platform agnostic. Now with that some will like it and others may not, and that is always a point. Yet, most people who build and use Apollo apps, IMO again, will be initially connected with specific web sites or networking groups. In that case it is going to be more an issue of the personal of the site/group than the persona of Windows/Mac/Linux. So, it’s not about designing for a platform… Apollo should help us grow up in that regard. It should be about designing for the network association for a change. And having OS specific standard features included dynamically from the runtime. (Wait and see… I am expecting to be impressed rather than stifled.)

Then again… I am more a developer/project manager than full time designer. Take it as you will with that in mind.

http://wireless-watch.com/2006.....a-meeting/

December 21st, 2006 at 9:45 am

Apollo is a good concept to mix Flash and HTML together well. I see the biggest drawback is not running inside the browser. Using 2 seperate clients to access Web applications and Desktop RIA does not sound right.

I beleive Desktop RIA applications is the way to go. More on my blog http://pullur.wordpress.com/.

Soon we are launching a Desktop platform that will enable J2EE/AJAX/Flash developers write Desktop-Web integrated apps.

Vijay

December 29th, 2006 at 4:03 pm

A major photo sharing site is retooling to use Apollo for special-purpose apps like building photobooks, collages and the like. The reason: increased control, fast access to local files, differentiability in the app and reduced storage costs for photos that aren’t used to make stuff. Replaces Flex in some cases.