Microsoft convened a small group of bloggers today at their Redmond headquarters to discuss the upcoming Mix Conference in Las Vegas. Highlights of the day included:
- The receipt of a Zune as a gift (the third I’ve received from Microsoft – I now have all three colors)
- Seeing the look on Gates’ face when he walked into the room and every single one of us had a Mac open on the desk in front of us – Niall Kennedy had also set up a makeshift wifi network using an Airport
- An hour-long anything goes Q&A session with Gates
One of the questions that I asked was his opinion on the long term viability of DRM. I don’t hide the fact that I think DRM isn’t workable, and actively support DRM-free music alternatives such as eMusic and Amie Street. The rise of illegal or quasi-legal options like AllofMP3 and BitTorrent ensure that users have plenty of options when it comes to DRM-free digital music.
Gates didn’t get into what could replace DRM, but he did give some reasonably candid insights suggesting that he thinks DRM is as lame as the rest of us.
Gates said that no one is satisfied with the current state of DRM, which “causes too much pain for legitmate buyers” while trying to distinguish between legal and illegal uses. He says no one has done it right, yet. There are “huge problems” with DRM, he says, and “we need more flexible models, such as the ability to “buy an artist out for life” (not sure what he means). He also criticized DRM schemes that try to install intelligence in each copy so that it is device specific.
His short term advice: “People should just buy a cd and rip it. You are legal then.”
He ended by saying “DRM is not where it should be, but you won’t get me to say that there should be usage models and different payment models for usage. At the end of the day, incentive systems do make a difference, but we don’t have it right with incentives or interoperability.”
These quotes are rough – I was typing fast but it was not an exact transcript. Still, it is interesting insight from a man who is in a position to shape the future of digital music models.
There’s lots of good coverage from other bloggers attending as well. See Steve Rubel, Molly Holzschlag, Ryan Stewart, Niall Kennedy and Liz Gannes. Todd Bishop also has a nice roundup.
I think what ever the new technology a standard should first be agreed upon so that the consumers don’t get a raw deal.
http://www.tekn...ld.blogspot.com
Shame you didn’t get a picture of Gates’ face when he walked into the room full of Macs. That would have been priceless.
The soon to be, most famous quote of the year 2006
OMG: This will follow both you and Bill for yearsss……
Techcrunch=Microsoft of Blogs….Michael Arrington=Bill Gates…;)
*the ability to “buy an artist out for life” (not sure what he means)*
I think what he meant (or it’s what I’d like to propose anyway
) is a model similar to software: if you buy a “license” once for, say, White Album, you should be able then to get it however many times you like (for your personal use) either by downloading (free then) or by CD / vinil / DVD etc – for the price of covering production / distribution costs only.
The problem with sharing remains, but it remains with software as well and somehow we manage.
We don’t manage ’somehow’. We manage because software is protected by a whole host of license protecting techniques, the most ubiquitous of which is the good old code.
With the same system, there would be a code for every CD you bought which had to be entered into your CD player before it played.
His short term advice: “People should just buy a cd and rip it. You are legal then.”
Something about that statement coming from Bill Gates just doesn’t sound right.
Quite funny coming from someone who created DRM as the way to go for digital publishing….
Every time a head of a big company criticizes some of the company’s strategies or products like he doesn’t have anything to do with it – in this case DRM – I have a mental picture of an old, tired man in a huge office overlooking an enormous field of machines – working tirelessly and producing money – over which he has no real control of anymore.
I would love to know what he was thinking when he saw all those Macs..
I wonder if the buy an artist out for life thing was the ability to say “I love this artist” I want to pay X and have access to all his music at no further cost. That would be an interesting concept..
“People should just buy a cd and rip it. You are legal then.”
Wonder what his Windows Media DRM partners think of that quote – right now though, they seem like they are being ditched for the Zune platform in any case..
Mike,
Can I have one of your stockpile of Zunes, please???!!
Mike – can I have the other one of your extra Zunes? It would make a great Christmas gift from you to a total stranger, and I would totally appreciate it!! When’s the last time you gave away a Zune to someone you didn’t know but who’d be eternally grateful?
Hi Mike,
I dont want a Zune, but since your in the mood for giving – can I make your babies?
PS – im a man?
I would love to see Gate’s face when he entered the room
CAn I have a free Zune too? lol
My respect for Bill Gates has now been slightly increased.
I could really use a Zune. Actually, I am working on an add-on for the Zune and having one on hand would be incredibly useful.
I am a poor college student so I can’t exactly just run out and buy one neither.
I’m glad to hear Bill Gates make such a statement regarding DRM. With Bill and Steve pushing back on the RIAA and MPAA along with the consumer audience, the prospect for changes in DRM methodology certainly have a brighter outlook.
Michael about the extra Zunes:
Sign them with a CD marker pen, sell it here or E-Bay and donate the money to charity.
I guess that people would love to have a Zune signed by you and touched by someone in Microsoft.
You get credits for that, call more attention to you and your blogs, and will create news all around the Blogosphere kingdom, and charity will be thankful.
i think edgeio might be the more appropriate place for Mike to sell them
Mike,
What would you propose as an alternative to DRM?
I think we need to focus on DRM standards like ISMACrypt and OMA. An open source implementation of these standards has been contributed to SourceForge here: http://sourcefo...ojects/openipmp
http://podslug.com/blog/?p=78
I’m happy to hear that one of the heads of state regarding drm is admitting it’s flawed. Hopefully this was just not lip service to spread holiday pr cheer to sell more zunes and something will actually be done about it.
I don’t think I’m alone in saying that with everything the mpaa and riaa, etc has put the consumers through that we really care about the legalites anymore. Making valid, purchasing consumers pay a “theft tax” is about as stupid as paying for “uninsured motorists”. Neither benefits the consumer nor does anything to help rectify the situation.
Hopefully in 2007 we won’t be rehashing these conversations using the term “DRM 2.0″. [shudders]
Andrew
“People should just buy a cd and rip it. You are legal then.”
Are you serious…Bill….nah….
His short term advice: “People should just buy a cd and rip it. You are legal then.”
“Something about that statement coming from Bill Gates just doesn’t sound right.” – Corey
Corey…didnt see your comment before I wrote my first…but again…my exact sentiments…..
This is amazing. DRM is completely downplayed for the media content. I am surprised that a person (hard core capitalist, which is a great thing) believes that DRM is not going to work. I agree that the current DRM is not working as the models have changed significantly. We need a new DRM model, one which scales at the level where hundreds of millions of copied of the same content can be protected or controlled-distributed so that the rightful owner of the content gets the recognition.
You folks that the music and the movie industry is going to go for ir. That fact that it allows me to download movies/music etc for a particular dollar charge it going to evaporate. I think not.
The market needs a new solution. Maybe Microsoft will not be in the position to do it. Some others will.
Accept the fact. Just because we do not have a solution now does not mean it is not going to happen. It will happen and will be a evolutionary-revolution (65% evolution, 35% revolution).
My strong sentiments about DRM. Apologies if I hurt anybodies feelings in advance.
sganguly@yahoo.com
This is incredible. Some of the most influential bloggers/thinkers get 60 minutes with Big G….and you guys ask questions like:
Whats on your Xmas list ? What did you want to be when you grew up? (these questions I’ve picked up from Steve Rubel’s site)….
Even Big G must be wondering — are these guys really the most influential thinkers / bloggers in the industry today…What has the world come to.
you do yourself no favors at all in that post, especially after yesterday’s debacle… ‘i’ve got all three zunes for free!’. Well, lucky you. Like the other commenter said, auction them for Child’s Play or something. I think TC is bringing in enough cash atm that you don’t really need ‘em. And hell, show some awareness of the fact that MS are bribing you with all this. Just admitting it gets nowhere. YOU STILL TOOK THE GIFTS. You were still influenced by it all. Doesn’t matter than it’s MS. It’s a freebie.
I guess it just fits with all the ’sponsors’ and ‘partners’ that seem to have become the main theme of this place recently…
yeah, dr phil. I’m with you on that one. MS softens ‘em up with zunes and a promise of time with Bill, and they soft-touch him. I guess that’s what you get from self-important bloggers. I mean, it’s pretty pathetic that these people couldn’t see they were being shaped and prodded and softened up by MS. Just look at the way they’re describing the group that was assembled by MS:
Steve Rubel: “online influencers”.
Liz Gannes: “I’m up at Microsoft HQ with a group dubbed “leaders in various aspects of the web community””
Naill Kennedy (count the “I”s in in his post: “I spent an hour today with Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates…”
Christ, if the best these people can do is think they’re going to offend Bill Gates by using *gasp* Macs in front of him, it’s pretty sad that these people do have such an audience. MS can feel rightly pleased with themselves and the write-ups they’ll get from this little jolly.
Geez…an hour of face time with Bill Gates and this is all the insight we get? Bill thinks DRM is not perfect. Sounds like some real hard hitting questions from the bloggers (heh)…I hope part 2 is coming.
” The soon to be, most famous quote of the year 2006
OMG: This will follow both you and Bill for yearsss…… ”
Uhh, right, because Bill Gates doesn’t know that media-related people mostly use macs… yea, that’s how he became the richest man in the world, by being oblivious to the market. Sigh.
I agree with Dave G – sounds like you guys blew this great opportunity. Also, does your fancy mac not come with a mic that you could’ve recorded Bill with so that we didn’t get some half-assed, high-school-journalistic “well this isn’t an exact quote” BS?
so lets see – mike writes a post about drm – then somehow gets invited to meet gates – wonder if one has anything to do with the other
then he has the fiasco of yesterday – who knows who caused it
and today he starts his post by saying – na na poo poo- i got 3 zunes, you have none.
lame – i agree with the others about donating the zunes… oh well.
i guess he could thank us, the people who made him.
disappointing, esp. after all his comments that we should feel emotion about from him yesterday.
i don’t agree with the whole drm scheme at all. why? because the artists that make the music are not being considered when drm programs are added to all the new mp3 players that will limit what types of mp3 players their music can be played on. if you ask me, which you should, musicians should get at least 75% of the money that is made on the songs they write and perform, if not the full amount. forget about “omg, peoplez downloading teh muzic r teh evil!!!1!!” and start paying more attention to “what about paying the artists for the music they make UP FRONT, without all of the usual bullcrap that’s involved in the whole politics of being on a record label.
btw, can anyone say PAYPERPOST? three zunes over time worth about what $750 for a few posts… hmm and we just fired someone over ethics
gifts are still valuable in the eyes of the law and tax office.
I think you mean: “…interesting insight from a man who has repeatedly failed to shape the future of digital music models.”
>>I would love to know what he was thinking when he saw all those Macs..
almost all press people use macs. I used them in journalism school in 1990.
graphic artist are the same way; while animation is windows. its the tools and the industry; macs are good at type setting, layout, graphics…
so, i think Bill was use to it.
“Also, does your fancy mac not come with a mic that you could’ve recorded Bill with so that we didn’t get some half-assed, high-school-journalistic “well this isn’t an exact quote” BS?”
All they would’ve had to do is open Quicktime and start recording with the built in iSight/mic.
I am so baffled when I see people listening to iPods, or using a MAC. They have to be the stupidest, most technologically ignorant people on the planet. To be sucked into the biggest marketing SCAM alive; you buy and iPod or a Zune, you support DRM. Now there are HUNDREDS of good plug and play digital music players out there; that are cheaper, have a better interface and work perfectly on EVERY OS. (Cowon, Creative etc) They even support DRM, just not exclusively like the Zune or the Pood.
You deserve all the hassles and bullshit that comes with your closed systems, you morons.
This will all end with crying
From the Department of Unintentional Hilarity/Truth Telling:
“Gates didn’t get into what could replace DRM, but he did give some reasonably candid insights suggesting that he thinks DRM is as lame as the rest of us.”
I think you meant to write “as the rest of us DO.” Instead, you wrote that Gates thinks that all the bloggers in the room, along with DRM, are lame.
Hey I setup this poll @ pollburner.com what do you all think about DRM?
http://www.poll...id=261edf233e51
Are the real culprits the DRM technology providers like Microsoft and Apple or the studios and the record labels who wield and impose the various DRM rights and restrictions on consumers?
Forget the current DRM and instead work on the technology that would make policing easier. Just the fear factor alone would do the magic.
The brown Zune looks like a turd.
“The problem with sharing remains, but it remains with software as well and somehow we manage.”
I think that while the problem still exists with software, there are so many “free” copies floating around that most people dont need to buy. Just imagine how much software comes on that new Dell or HP system. You got your copy of Windows, one of the many CD burning programs, Works or Office, and a web browser. For most people – thats all they need.
I know my mom just wants to use AOL, AIM, Word and a web browser. She doesnt care if its IE or FireFox or if she burns a cd with Nero or Sonic. My younger siblings just want to put music on their iPods – they dont care where it comes from and to be honest, they dont even know that its “illegal” to do so the way they are doing it.
As far as I am concerned, music will always be way more pirated than software. Maybe Bill is right and we haven’t figured it out yet, but DRM is here to stay at least for a few more years. I just use AllOfMP3. Been using it for years and I find almost every album I need. Gotta love that place!
As an iTunes Store customer who has purchased at least a couple hundred songs over the past couple years, I really don’t have a problem with Apple’s DRM. I can burn songs to CD, and I can play them on up to five computers. To me, that is very reasonable.
My only complaint is that I can’t burn purchased songs onto an MP3 CD for use in my car, but there are ways around that.
give everyone a unique ref and get all the devices to have the ablity of holding that ref.
each file contains that ref and if it matchs the ref the file can be used.
sure its breakable but at least you wouldn’t have file that only plays in 1 place.
In the end the problem with DRM is the media companies are being greedy.
The problem is DRM does not stop piracy as people are still just ripping stuff and sharing it that way.
I don’t buy digital music not because I don’t want to (I buy games, books etc) but because I cannot do with it as I want. I want to be able to play stuff on my mp3 player and can’t play DRM crap on it.
Hey Michael – I’ve been a reader of TC since last april, and its been the one constant daily blog read of mine. I just want to say that I think you need to stick to your core – I’d like to see more of your posts up here on techcrunch. You were the writer that made this thing work, and even if it is only 2 or 3 posts per day, it would be more powerful. Don’t let this negative press get to you. Its out of your control, and people want you to sink. Thats life. Focus on this blog. Focus on Techcrunch. You can’t run an empire. Techcrunch is the one thing you can control and should worry about. Keep writing here, because its what made you who you were.
But Dan — “Mike” wants an empire. …and he can’t help but be who he is. “A blog doth not make the man..” etc. So kick back and maybe watch him blow it – this is that moment in the party where that one guy is sneezing everyone else’s lines off a mirror. Some people, when they become the life of the party for moment, and the 15 Mbs of fame is theirs.. can’t help but unravel with a meglomanic hubris. …perhaps this blog is Arrington’s rope? If he needs this much advice from his fan base (such as yourself) ..then perhaps there is a more fundamental issue? To jumpcut a metaphor – some DNA just can’t be given a boob-job.
Use a pencil and a notepad, that should help you take notes faster (and silently).
Couldn’t one of you have brought a Zaurus (which runs Linux) just to wind him up a bit further?
All present, discussions revolve around building fences for existing music. ‘Copyright’ or ‘Protection’ or ‘Technology’.
Somewhere along the way, developers lost sight of music being FOR today and tomorrow, not FROM yesterday.
The classic days of marketing of music: Create awareness, Arouse interest, Encourage decisions (to buy or own) and Facilitate action (purchase) are gone. Radio stations play history, if anyone listens.
New artists, new genre, new sounds – their routes to a paying public are eroded or destroyed by a wish to “protect today, ignore tomorrow”. New blood has no route to market!
Ali D-C