Huh? YouTube Sends TechCrunch A Cease & Desist

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1. Tcruncher2
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:18 am

   Mike,

   Just write back “Wilson how about Cease & Desist my brother…………wasting my time”

   

2. Steven Pam
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:21 am

   Michael,

   That’s funny, thanks for sharing.

   But seriously, have you, or are you going to respond directly, as well as publicly (here)?

3. Search Engines WEB
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:25 am

   The Bloggers are going to have a field day with this one - unfortunately, once someone becomes REAL BIG - they forget the people that helped to get them there in the early days when they would have been very happy for any publicity

   http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=137

   http://digg.com/tech_news/YouT.....ourt_Order

4. Michael Arrington
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:36 am

   Steven - I have no intention of fighting YouTube on this. If they want it down, I’ll take it down. I don’t want to be put on a black list with Google PR. But first I’m going to have a conversation with my attorney and the attorney that sent me this letter.

5. Kevin Burton
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:47 am

   You don’t have to agree to their terms of service to write software. You’re writing a 3rd party app which happens to download video from youtube.

   The irony is insane though…… my head is going to explode.

   Youtube is really starting to suck.

   Someone should write a youtube proxy so that we can get our videos off of that site.

   Kevin

6. Steven Pam
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:52 am

   Michael,

   Thanks for your reply… I didn’t mean to ask whether you intend ‘fighting’ them - just whether you planned to speak to the attorney or the company to find out what the hell they think they’re doing. If you are able to share any of that conversation, it would be very interesting.

7. Scott Taylor
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:55 am

   And the fall of YouTube begins….

8. Martin
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 2:57 am

   HaHa, this makes my day - the total irony of YouTube going after others for copyright!!!

   Great PR Google/YouTube - goes to show what happens when a innovative entrepreneurial venture gets swallowed up by the big guys - you get a bunch of lawyers running the show.

9. Svetlana Gladkova
   

   November 15th, 2006 at 3:10 am

   I wonder if they actually write similar letters to developers of all similar applications. They are really numerous and some of them might be so small that no one even uses them, I believe. I guess in this case a large part of Google investment is intended to go to pay for attorney services.

10. Ran
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:11 am

    Thanks for sharing. I see your point of removing the app in order to keep your relationship with gootube, but still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, especially considering all the positive exposure they got here.

11. Simon
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:12 am

    “Techcruch is not authorised to promote YouTube”

    I suggest you take them at their word and cease and desist from writing about their site.

12. Chris
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:13 am

    I think the key phrase in what Michael has quoted is “as permitted through the functionality of the Website”, which I read as - yes, you can do all of these things: “use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display and perform”, but only via the YouTube website.

13. Rian
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:14 am

    I actually think its what Michael said it is, a show of good faith towards the copyright holders of some of the movies that are available.. Think the Big 4 in music land.. While YouTube might have discussed licensing the movies, but only on terms of them being shown online and not to be downloaded.

    I agree that any third party software that gets written is not the doing of YouTube and the license they have with the companies wont be harmed due to it, but as a sign of good faith towards said companies these type of letters would be a very low cost sign of good faith, much cheaper than developing new ways to complicate downloading.

    I’d be interested in a short report of the convo the lawers have as well, if possible, could you share that Michael?

14. Mike Riversdale
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:22 am

    I s’pose “Do no evil” is subjective.
    Aaaaand, if you’re gonna spend that much money and (presumably) get in cahoots with the major tv/movie/music suppliers then they (Google - it’s not a YouTube issue any more) are gonna start playing by someone else’s rules: http://investor.google.com/conduct.html

15. eoecho | Greg Magnus
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:23 am

    YouTube appears to be another case of getting to the top then falling off the cliff. It sounds like the beginning of the end for YouTube.

16. Harry
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:33 am

    So youTube thinks that its users may have a problem with others downloading their videos! And why is that? Is it because they will be missing out on rev share they get from YouTube? Of course not because they get nothing!
    So youTubers who do you think made you as rich as you are? Your technology or your design? It is your community and blogs like TC, you are now threatening!
    You do not own the content you host. Make it downloadable, remixable or share your Google shares with your users.

17. Ramki
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 3:41 am

    I think something like this can give unwanted publicity to the tools which youtube wants to prevent people from using. This story will surely make it to the top in digg and other news sites. Even if I assume that it is mostly a techie audience that reads these sites, all of them might not have been aware of this tool till now. I wonder how many videos were actually downloaded using these tools.

18. Richard in Edinburgh
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:02 am

    It would be an interesting exercise to look into how big companies become on average before turning into evil bullying conglomerates entirely lacking in common sense and any semblance of corporate ethics. It reminds me of HG Wells (all capitalist progress necessarily ends in monopoly and dysfunction).

19. Erik Schwartz
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:10 am

    I’ve never read YT’s terms of use and I’m not a lawyer, I have spent way too many brain cells on DMCA issue…

    That said, I thought one of the reasons YT got away with what they did is that they did not facilitate the creation of a mechanical copy of the video on the client machine (that YT had no control over), they only created an ethereal copy during playback.

    It’s the streaming VS download argument.

    (of course flash DOES make a mechanical copy in the users’ cache, but let’s not talk about that, or YT and all the other video sites that use Flash (and Pandora too) will get in trouble…)

20. goodspeed
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:13 am

    Don’t worry, Michael. As you put it down I’ll gladly host the tool on my server where it will be far from their legal claws.

    Ironically, this is not even a new technique and it’s been blogged to ad infinitum. See for your self http://www.google.com/search?&.....o+download

    I guess sending you a C&D letter simplifies their job rather than sending it to 17million++ blogs & websites. Lazy bums :p

21. keanu
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:15 am

    aha, TC makes youtube more famous and popular. then youtube is afraid of getting more lawsuits.

22. Phil Sellers
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:24 am

    Here we go again. Apple Inc. and the “pod” ownership letters…YouTube with the “infringement” letters. The fat greasy lawyers want a part of the action and it’s going to get worse. It’s the cheesy underbelly of the web and the slime oozes from the cracks. Good luck, Michael. I have my own ongoing battle with the word “iTour” in my domain.

23. Charlie
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:27 am

    They left out the instructions on how to use the term YouTube properly in a sentence.

24. EmEhRKay
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:33 am

    Bad execution but makes business sense. I am certain that Youtube is planning some sort of content distrtubtion that involves for-pay content. If there are tools out there that can easily download video - blah blah blah

    It just sucks because I’m sure a lot of their early adopters came from Mike and his coverage of their service.

    We’ll see how this plays out.

25. Travis J. James
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:46 am

    As if my opinion matters, I will offer one. I would not cease and desist. I would force YouTube to do what they probably have intended to do all along AFTER they everyone hooked on their currently open and free web-based API’s. They intend to start charging people for using their API’s after they get everyone hooked. If they are forced to reveal this strategy before everyone gets hooked on them as part of “mash-up” site content aggregation, then people might think twice about using them in the first place.

    You tool (and others’) use in this manner forces their hand and can result in protecting a LOT of people from being “jacked” at the point of a gun later when Google decides they want to start collecting revenue from YouTube’s use.

    Perhaps, through this, the use of YouTube’s open API’s can stay free for a little longer as well.

26. Hugh
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:46 am

    Cease and desist orders should be used with extreme caution when directed at the press. Otherwise they are a club that preemptively turns off discussion ( a right I consider invaluable) Doesn’t look like W & S really exhausted their options before going to this measure. (2 voicemails does not a great effort make).

27. Tzvika
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:48 am

    Wilson Sonsini has the coolest logo.

28. cbmeeks
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:50 am

    What a crock of sh|t. Nintendo came after me the same way (http://www.metroidclassic.com).

    Is it just me or is GOOGLE starting to suck more and more too?

29. Michae Webster
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 4:53 am

    I read this early this morning, and it did bring a smile to my face.

    Eric Schwartz’s arguments appear to make the most sense, but there is still something tremendously funny about Youggle finding religion about copyrights.

30. william wei
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:04 am

    Michael,

    I knew this will happen the minute I saw your post about the tool on TC, but did not realize that it will be this soon. It just showed how popular TC is, considering this kind of tools exist and continue to exist way before TC has it in the public. But seriously, we just saw the tip of the iceberg about YouTube’s issues regarding to the nature of its business that everybody is watching how it will evolve, the second Google bought YouTube.

    My take on this will be to put myself in GooTube’s shoes and think what I will do. I think I will have to do the same thing which is to keep improving on the technology front to solve the problem (don’t know if it is ever going to be solved) while continue to hire lawyers to show that GooTube is serious about the issues it is facing and life goes on.

    But, Michael, I am curious to know what you will do if you just bought youtube. And, I am also curious to know what everyone here will do?

    Thanks,
    William

31. Darren
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:10 am

    I got my first Cease and desist letter via email the other day from Digg. It was nicer wording that the youtube one. I have a domain name that uses digg in it so I am at fault and like Micheal I will take it down (well rename the site).

    the letter shown here seems very heavy handed, the only bit I can see where they have a point is in using the name youtube but you could rename the product for that to be fixed. As for the content issue I fail to see what their point is. when you view the video it is no longer on thier site as its downloaded to your computer.

32. william wei
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:22 am

    Just imagine this, in year 2050, technology has enable human brain to act as a massive digital storage device as well as to have a way to distribute the information in our brain among people without any external devices. Do lawyers write a letter demanding everyone to cease and desist? I think the technology is not the problem here. It is the copyright law of today.

33. Didier DURAND
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:29 am

    many other Youtube download tools exist ..even for iPod:

    Check http://www.ratiatum.com/log1037_iTube.html or http://www.ratiatum.com/log1032_DownTube.html or
    http://www.ratiatum.com/log993.....oader.html

    Do you know if you are the only one receiving this Cease & Desist or all others also?

34. mtz_rox
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:41 am

    Can anyone say youtube is falling apart. Those two guys were real smart, and google, real dumb. Anyone noticed all the freaking pauses you get now.

35. Nicola Mattina
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:48 am

    The music industry has demonstrated that using systems to avoid copies is useless and that user are not bandit and so that they are going to pay small sums to see contents.
    If Google is planning to use their websites to broadcast video from majors, I believe this stupid letter is only a demonstration to them (quite stupid people) that they care about copyright protection.
    Nicola

36. mik
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 5:55 am

    You don’t need a tool to download the videos. Just go to your browsers cache and copy the file.

    This is because yt doesn’t stream but just downloads videos to your browser.

37. Ralph
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:00 am

    I imagine it’s a good time to be a lawyer for video and intellectual property….lots of business in the near future!

38. bernie
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:10 am

    They’re just pissed that you broke the YouTube/ Google thing. I don’t know that nay part of it is problematic EXCEPT the YouTube name in the title, but that’s an easy fix.

    “TechCrunch is not authorized to promote YouTube?” Does that mean I don’t get to write about YouTube in my blogs? Exactly how DO they think people found them in the first place? If they are going to require authorization, I think we should all stop linking and writing about YouTube. Watch the hit numbers dip, and maybe they will change their tune.

    Hoseheads.

39. Allen
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:15 am

    can you approve my comment? appears its in the moderation queue - thanks

40. Stii
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:16 am

    They kidding?! Google must keep this up. They are good on their way to become as unpopular as Microsoft…

41. Syl
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:19 am

    Just promote this site then:

    http://www.videodl.org/

42. carl rahn griffith
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:20 am

    hubris.

43. Matdredalia
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:34 am

    I can’t decide if I should be scratching my head, laughing my @$$ off, or just be plain pissed off.

    The fact that YouTube, of all freakin’ people, is suing someone for copyright infringement would be like Jesus Christ crucifying someone for turning water into wine: It’s just plain stupid and hypocritcal.

    It also makes me very sad that, since Google now owns YouTube, they are in someway involved in this….and it really makes me question my respect for them.

    If you were hurting someone, making money from the videos, etc. I could understand, but this is just plain ridiculous.

44. Ed
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:34 am

    Interesting. I agree with you Mike.

    Folks, someone already Dugg this. Here’s the URL:

    http://digg.com/tech_news/YouT.....ourt_Order

45. Jon Zencovich
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:40 am

    That is really incredible. As you showed, you haven’t broken the Terms of Use. You have the backing of the community Michael. And yeah, it would be wise to remove the tool for the time being, but I’m sure this will all blow over and you will be able to put it back up.

    If you’re having difficulty writing back, here are some suggestions: http://thepiratebay.org/legal

    Ok I’m kidding about responding A LA Pirate Bay, but I hope it gave you a laugh

    We’re behind you buddy, Keep up the good work.

    –Jon Z | http://www.jzencovich.com

46. derrich
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:41 am

    What a great readto start off the morning. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to clean the coffee off of my keyboard…and chin.

47. Bob
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:43 am

    Make a video response to the lawyer, put it up on YouTube, then download it using your tool and email it to the lawyer.

48. Chris Ovenden
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:47 am

    It seems that GooTube is about to change its terms and conditions.

49. Lewis Salem
    

    November 15th, 2006 at 6:48 am

    Michael,

    We understand if you take down the video. Sometimes it’s just not worth the fight. We must spread the word about youtube to average users. I would stop using the “service” as your content becomes their content:

    “. . . you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the YouTube Website and YouTube’s (and its successor’s) business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the YouTube Website (and derivative works thereof) ”

    Why give them free content?

50. Dave Sherratt
    

    Novemb