http://www.radioguide.fm has a similair way of approach I figure.

GR

shit-happens 218661 Information source about amor real….

First of all, this is a really great conversation, and I’m happy to see the interest in Internet barter.

I wanted to chime in because I have been in the online barter industry since 2003, co-founding a swap site that is live today.

I think the major point here is simple: CDs are basically the only item that is mainstream, and that you can trade away and yet still have – plain and simple. The very notion that people are erasing their burned copies of CDs when they trade them away is ludicrous, and Lala surely knows that. On the other hand, put yourself in Lala’s shoes – they don’t care and why should they? Just because they are giving users the ability to legally trade items, and these same users are using the system to steal, is not the fault of Lala – just like another user mentioned above that the same thing can be done by selling CDs back to a brick-and-mortar store.

However, and this is a big however – one must assume that anyone who decides to get into the CD trading business, online or off, recognizes that CDs are particularly well suited to trading because of the ease in copying – plain and simple. In the end, Lala gets a bonus with the ease of copying, and the thieves are able to rob another person. Thieves are thieves, and I’m sure there are plenty of people using Lala appropriately as well.

Ok, all that aside, there is another issue at hand, and that’s the inventory. I signed up to Lala and was able to right away get a CD off the system, with absolutely no guarantee, agreement, or otherwise that would compel me to send a CD off in return. Yikes – that’s bad!! … That means that now, someone who earned trade points or “karma” (as is used on Lala) is now less one CD of a selection on Lala to choose from. Extrapolate that over the entire system – compound every day – and you get a lot of karma, and no items to get in return. This, I would argue, is the single most important issue to consider when looking at Lala, and any barter community. Specifically, the “karma” issue in Lala is just amusing, as there is absolutely no transparency on the system, and users have no idea what they really have earned, what the status of the economy is, and what they could possibly get in return both now and in the future.

Systems such as Lala are almost like a Ponzi scheme, relying on a steady flow of new users to keep the inventory looking good, when all along there is a buildup of points, with less and less items to spend them on.

If Lala is planning on charging $1.00 per trade, and then using profits to replace stolen items to keep the watering of karma down, then I feel really bad for the VCs who gave them 9M in venture funding.

We created our swap site to be a stable online economy, and the sad thing is that when services like Lala flame out because of the problems I mentioned above (and many more I haven’t touched on), they will ruin the reputation of Internet barter for the few companies that are doing it responsibly.

Just my $0.02.

as for the people that say they can’t see anyone not copying and keeping a copy, i don’t. i see it as theft and i don’t condone stealing from artists AND record companies (….the people that work in the biz don’t make anywhere near the amount of money most people think, though artists don’t get a fair share of their profits and some labels are unscrupulous….but this is another rant all together.) i am offended by people that write off theft so easily. LOTS of people work hard for that music and to get it out there. but hey, if you can sleep then i guess who am i to condone you….thief.

and even those that keep some songs off an album and send it off to someone else is not that big of an issue thanks to the Z foundation. that direct contribution to artists outweighs some stealing (though i still haven’t found cause to do it)……

if this company maintains its altruistic intention it will be amazing. this is a win/win form of consumerism.

I do not see how the RIAA touches this at all. These are physical CDs that are/were owned by Lala members, and they can do whatever they want with them. Secondly, copying of CDs for personal use is totally legal.

hyper – Is LaLa perfect? No. But you vastly overstate their issues. Lala takes all of the risk so if their are bad traders you are not punished but rather they will punish/kick out the bad traders. They are keeping track of users who report a suspiciously high percentage of “bad discs” received. You can request that you only receive CDs with artwork if you so desire. Any bad discs you receive can be marked as such and you will get another one in the future at no cost. Finally, although their database is not exhaustive its pretty damn sufficient, for me at least it had all but 2 of my 150 discs.

As for the illegality, maybe I am missing it, but seems legit to me.

Another problem is because the condition of cds is so subjective, people may mark cds sent by you as Broken and Unplayable for whatever reason they feel, some users on LALA even mark perfect discs with missing artwork as Broken which affects your “karma” rating and limits the amount of discs you can receive.

The database of available cds to trade and receive is also very limited, updates to the database are extremely rare and far between.

Despite LALA’s claims of over 100,000 users, the actual number is actually much smaller. I recommend staying away from this service for some time until LALA proves it can fix the current problems, if they ever do at all.
There are numerous services just like LALA already out, who have better more effecient systems and friendlier communities.