OpenBC is a Hamburg, Germany based professional social networking site that is often compared to LinkedIN. They were founded in late 2003, are profitable, and boast nearly 2 million members and 275 million page views per month.
Six weeks ago they launched an open design challenge for the new personal profile page on OpenBC. The winner will not only have the privilege of seeing their design on hundreds of millions of monthly page views, but they will also be awarded €10,000. Each week the designs were scored by a panel of judges (I am one of the judges, along with Cal Henderson, Chris Shipley and Thomas Gad), as well as by a popular vote of anyone reviewing the sites.
143 design submissions were made in six weeks, and 3,642 votes were cast. The challenge is now in the final stages, with five finalists to be chosen from 19 weekly winners. Votes must be in by September 10, and the final winner will be chosen by one of the final five from the popular vote.
I like this approach to a redesign. Not only does OpenBC get some publicity from the contest, but they also get input from hundreds of designers for their new site. The fact that their users get to have input on the process, by voting, means they are more likely to feel a sense of ownership and community with the site. And at the end of the day, the €10,000 prize isn’t much more than they would spend simply going out and hiring a designer directly.
I agree with the “free” publicity but € 10.000 for just a profile page without coding is a bit much
Well, they get 143 designs they now can offer to their users to personalize their pages. There’s nothing new to this “trick”, really.
@RBA, interesting idea…haven´t thought about it!
not that you should base all analysis on alexa rankings, but they do suggest something a world away from 275 million page views a month:
http://www.alex...om+linkedin.com
well the designs are pretty lboring imho.
Well, thanks for the timely tip of the contest
@yongfook: Alexa says nothing here, because it doesn’t count HTTPS traffic. openBC is completely HTTPS, while Linkedin is not.
Michael
Regarding spec work, the executive director of The Association of Registered Graphic Designers of Ontario (RGD Ontario) Says it better than I can. http://www.amer...ticle-0002.html
I abhor design contests – why not just pay a decent price to a good agency, or selection of agencies for the work? There’s so many unpaid and wasted man hours that will result from this, it’s ridiculous.
I would have thought techcrunch would be supporting the web design industry.
Hi Yongfook, all apges of openBC are SSL encrypted. Alexa, Hitwise or others can’t track SSL protected sites. Look at the graph of linkedin and you know exactly when they switched of the SSL protection.
openbc is also very heavy in international users (not US centric that is) and this has implications for how to design the look of the interface (cultural implication up to it has to fit with several choosable languages for the navigation/information).
As far as ‘just a profile page’ and boring – I don’t want my profile page and the tools I use in openbc (note: there is more than just a profile page) to be flashy jumpy shiny and such.
It is just as boring as address books also will be because you cannot change that there will be always addresses, phone numbers, etc.
Go to your favorite day trader, travel agent, everybody working with a lot of information and you will notice: function and efficiency is preferred over pretty. If you can make it pretty, great, but if you break it on the way to make it pretty it is a no go.
Would I choose efficient and pretty over efficient and ugly? Of course. Pretty over working? No way.
@Lars
Sorry, but you are wrong.
Comscore is based on 2 million participants, which allows them to capture a broad view of surfing and buying behavior. They should be able to track your stie. I also believe that Hitwise is able to track it, because they use log file data directly from the ISPs.
Regarding Linkedin you are also not 100% accurate. Linkedin got a big boost during the last months due to active press work.
To give you a little hint: Try to “Americanize” OpenBC a little bit. It is way too German centric, which is the only reason why I (can) use it. As an American your site is frustrating if every 2nd Forum post is in German and every business person is located in Germany.
How is this different from LogoWorks and other bottom-feeders that devalue the design industry? I think I’ll call area plumbers, and ask all of them to come fix my sink, and the only the one that does the best job will get paid.
Professional designers don’t bother with stuff like this. If you want to get a bunch of amateur crap with a contest, go for it. But at the end, you’ll still have amateur crap.
all > did not know about the HTTPS on the site, thanks for clearing that up.
It’s kind of annoying how there is some gotcha to every method of measuring traffic – sounds like a good idea for a startup; the be-all-and-end-all of online traffic measurements, 100% indisputable! Perhaps the monetising angle would be to provide a 150% indisputable service for a fee.
“input from hundreds of designers for their new site”. I think it is pretty clear that what they got for €10,000 was many variations on 1 theme. I agree with many on here that contests like this devalue the design process. I have to assume they used a contest for that logo as well.
Anyone who has been on here long enough knows that Mike is very familliar with pitting one designer against another and letting them fight it out.
http://www.cre8...-to-the-crunch/
Interesting link, Carlo.
And no, not a surprise.
Web 2.0 has allowed everyone to coexist.
Social network are the wave of the Internet future. Web 2.0 revolves solely on the users’ needs and wants. It is indeed a wonderful world.
However, there are still those that have not yet even had the experience of Web 1.0. The digital divide is still alive.
HOW WILL WEB 2.0 HELP TO END THE DIGITAL DIVIDE?
/*
I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 – 1992)
/*
ALEXA, Hitwise, Comscore (Site traffic)
Hi folks – thanks for your interest and thoughts/feedback. Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about traffic numbers, I thought I’d clarify:
“The Alexa Toolbar turns itself off on secure pages (https:). Sites with secure page views will be under-represented in the Alexa traffic data” (http://www.alex...ffic_learn_more)
Hitwise also can not measure HTTPS traffic. comScore can:
Worldwide comScore numbers for July 2006:
(LINKEDIN.COM/OPENBC.COM)
Total Unique Visitors: 1,346,000 / 1,439,000
Average Daily Visitors: 75,000 / 142,000
Total Minutes: 20 million / 47 million
Total Pages Viewed 44 million / 90 million
Average Minutes per Visitor 15.0 / 32.9
Average Pages per Visitor 33 / 63
(Figures obtained directly from comScore Europe – figures are world-wide.)
Since we measured over 200 million page views in July @ openBC, we assume that all the figures above are under-representative – yet perhaps interesting for comparison purposes. Hope that helps!
@ criticisms: Yes, we’ve heard all of these criticisms on the design competition site… and certainly we would do things differently next time – some very good points have been made! Most people, however are taking the competition as it was originally intended – a bit of fun for anyone that would like to participate and show off their design ideas – especially for our members who use the site heavily. From our perspective, we’ve had trouble finding web designers we like who are willing and able to come work in Hamburg. We thought the competition might surface some people we could hire. We have a great external design team, but we have more work than they can handle.
Note – this was not a competition to redesign our entire site – just one of the most popular and important pages – the profile page. Our design team has already redesigned our site and we’re in the laborious process of updating hundreds of pages within the site. We think you’ll like it – as well as our new logo. It’s really nothing like the entries we received in the competition. Our challenge now will be to incorporate the design ideas of the competition winner into our profile pages.
guys, seriously.
what’s happening there is really just how germany works – sorry, germans. when looking back at many projects with german software or web-companies it seems it’s always the same. pay as little as possible, don’t care about what really counts (user-needs, interaction and workflows), don’t care about a process – just make it pretty. the other extreme there is over-engineering (hello frauenhofer-usability fraction) until the core of boredome is revealed and let loose on the end-looser.
ah well – the people participating in the contest chose for themselves, so why bother…
@rolf “We have a great external design team, but we have more work than they can handle.” – if you’re talking about a re-design for your core asset, the biggest step forward for your service, with what exactly do you keep your great external agency busy, when this should be your main focus here…?
Dear german,
Given Rolf (despite his name) is an Australian and we have over 17 different passports represented at openBC (I am an Aussie as well) is it perhaps possible that you are stereotyping without a solid foundation for your expressed opinion?
Bill
thanks, bill.
actually i am not stereotyping but reporting and summarizing on my own long-time experience. this is just a birds-eye example on how things are run in most companies there.
try for yourself.
@Rolf
You don’t have to show us OpenBC vs. Linkedin numbers. Comscore data is flawed, especially when you compare sites in the US and Europe. That is a comparison of apples and oranges.
@Bill
Stereotypes are common when you look at the current advertising in the US . Just visit AskDrZ.com or watch the current Beerfest movie.
So don’t take “German” too serious. OpenBC is a solid Mercedes, which is a little bit too German centric…and Linkedin is the GM, which attracts the masses but is not as well engineerd. At the end we will see which site works better. Personally I am pretty disappointed by both of them.
Besides that, I think it is very funny that you OpenBC guys cannot find a design company while Germany has 10% unemployment rate and there are at least 1000 unemployed designers on your own website.
“there are at least 1000 unemployed designers on your own website”
LOL
If you want to do a design contest ethically, don’t give money as a prize. Make it clear everyone is working for free, with no expectation of being paid. When money is involved, it’s no longer “for fun” it’s spec work, and that’s one of the most exploitative and unethical things you can do in design, short of flat-out stealing things.
Can you get as many submissions without money as a prize? Maybe not. But the ones you do get will go into it under no illusions as to what they’re getting.
What a terrible, ugly, hateful comment stream.
where’s the hate? what it looks like is that everyone posting in this thread is openly discussing a doubtworthy event held by a company. since the target group of this site’s community happenes to be the “usual suspects” to deliver the subject of this contest in trying to make a living, it’s just normal that this discussion questions the model, background and goals – and personally i think it’s a good thing that not only good things are to be read in threads. be open, feel better, learn.
Is it terrible, ugly and hateful because people don’t agree with you Mike?
Or is it terrible, ugly and hateful because exploitation of designers and devaluabtion of the design profession is a very serious issue in an industry you may not know much about?
I think it’s very much worth having a dialog about things like this, and whether they are ultimately beneficial or harmful, both to designers and to companies like OpenBC. Design is becoming more and more of a vital element to the success of companies, both startups and old, established players, at a time when it’s also becoming devalued and commoditized.
There’s a huge lack of understanding out there, and a lot of education that needs to be done. Hopefully you’d like to be part of the cure, not part of the problem.
@Michael
No hate, just sarcasm. Sorry if it came across wrong (if you were talking about my posts)!
If not hate then perhaps ill temper? I have worked in Germany now for some years and obviously we met different people…
When the competition process was created it was put forth that there should be opportunities for as many designers as possible in the contest to get as much exposure as possible on the microsite and this was incorporated along with the opportunity for the designers to express themselves.
The purpose was to capture some of the “wisdom of the crowd” in exposing and sorting new ideas for what is an important page for the members of the site.
Bill
BTW, here’s a quote from the contest rules:
“The openDESIGN challenge is not intended as a cheap way for us to generate new ideas. We want to harness the wisdom of the online community by involving everyone from the outset and finding the best designer(s) for the job. We will never adopt any ideas from your designs without asking for your permission first. If we do find an idea in an entry so compelling that we want to use it straight away (independently of the challenge outcome), openBC will contact you and together we will find an appropriate way to compensate you. Please bear in mind too though that great minds think alike – You may come up with some ideas which our designers have already conceived.”
I think OpenBC’s heart is in the right place. They’re trying to do this right. But just like someone travelling in a foreign country might accidently use a racial slur, they’ve unintentionally done something very wrong in the world of design.
As a rule, designers get screwed constantly. By big businesses and small businesses. Even huge agencies regularly get screwed by their clients. One of the biggest, nastiest, and most loathsome forms of screwing is spec work. A client will ask several designers or agencies to pitch to them. The designers scramble to put together brilliant ideas, seduced by the idea of a fat, prestigious account. At the end of this process one of them will be chosen. Maybe. Or maybe the client will take all the best ideas, and hire their buddy’s design studio.
For independant designers and small shops, it gets worse. Many clients demand actual, functional work be done for free as a “test” before hiring someone. Obviously, professional design organizations tell designers not to accept this, but when enough clients do it, you’re left with no choice. And again, it’s very common for clients to just take the work, use it, and never pay anyone.
So that’s the context behind the reaction. Professional designers are used to being treated as if their work has no value, and used to big clients with plenty of money stealing from them. I honestly believe this contest had no such intention, but intentions don’t determine reactions.
BTW, there’s also the issue that contests that get people to submit free work devalue all design work, but this post is too long already.
From the guy who responded from openBC. Very good response. Absolutely no defending of the situation there and you explained it perfectly.
A+ for PR!
@Nobubble: First you write…
“Comscore is based on 2 million participants, which allows them to capture a broad view of surfing and buying behavior. They should be able to track your site.”
…then, after seeing the numbers, it’s suddenly…
“Comscore data is flawed, especially when you compare sites in the US and Europe.”
Now they are not “able to track your site”? Or do they just have the wrong numbers?
Oh please. No one is forcing the people to submit designs. I do not see a gun against their heads. If they want to get involved, they will, knowing full well there is a possibility of not being chosen. Some designers do it for the practice or to help fill their portfolio. So will do it trying to win. If you don’t want to do it because you may not get picked, fine. But it’s pretty asinine to say that it is exploitation when they are not forced, coerced, or duped into participating.
It is the same thing with companies requesting a RFP for a project. In some instances, a RFP can take 10+ hours to research and write. Yet, no one forces you to do them. You do them for the possibility of being awarded the job.
Uh-oh the spec-work thing rears its ugly head. Personally, I’ve always tried to tread carefully when designers egos are involved. It’s pretty much the same thing with most semi accomplished artistic types: they see themselves as some sort of demi-gods and we should be forever grateful for their existence.
Pffft.
While I agree that a lack of education about the design process is part of the problem (never mind the fact that most people wouldn’t know good design if it kicked them in the balls), I’m tired of hearing so called ‘professional’ designers complain about things like this.
Technology is changing everything. The little people are becoming empowered with things like open source software, affordable hardware and the vast amount of shared knowledge and free training that is available on the web. If you don’t like the contest then don’t submit. If you feel really strongly about it, then don’t do business with the offending website. But if you bitch about amateur or hobbyist designers then you might as well bitch about everything that Web 2.0 represents: Empowering people to do great technical, creative and collaborative things that were never before possible.
Imagine for a second if only professionally schooled programmers were allowed to put software on the net? How many cool web-apps, mashups and cool tools would we be without? Would TechCrunch even exist? Well the same goes for web design IMHO, the more variety and competition out there the better.
Anyone else notice a pattern below?
1. The web enables anyone to become a publisher via blogs and social media sites… Traditional media companies complain loudly.
2. Stock photography is forever changed by affordable equipment and internet distribution… Old school photographers whine and moan…
3. The Internet forever changes the music business…. The RIAA sues it’s customers in an effort to prop up a failing business model.
4. Amateur web designers flood the internet. Using low cost tools they can occasionally rival what some of the pros are offering. Old school, elitist designers whine and moan.
The list goes on and on…….
The internet is changing everything. Adapt your model, learn new skills or die. Whining and bitching won’t get you anywhere. Most importantly, realize that if you are selling a product or service that others are willing to give away for next to nothing (or free) then you’re in big trouble.
/rant
@ Beejay
You can use Comscore data, but you should never compare US and European websites with Comscore. The reason is that Comscore has most not the same amount of data sources in the US and Europe. I also don’t recommend to use Comscore as a single source.
I would use Hitwise, which collects logfile data diectly from the ISP networks and enrich the data with Comscore to compare these two competitors. Best way would obviously be an independant third party, which has access to both companies webmetrics data.
Mike, just because people don’t agree with you does not make their comments ‘terrible, ugly & hateful’
‘Design Contest’ are merely spec work requests designed to encourage designers to work for free.
Big thumbs down.
Mark,
I’ve got a web project I’m bidding right now. If I put up a contest, and told prospective programmers they could spend a couple of days coding the backend for me, turn over all their source code, and then I’d pick the best one and send them $12,000, do you really think that would go over well?
If it would, then I have a new business plan to write up.
Michael I agree,
The negativity is really getting overwhelming. And I am not just talking about this topic.
Two days work preparing a mock-up for a $12,000 contract?
If I felt that I had a decent chance to win the contract I’d do it in a heartbeat. In fact I have done that and more for a contract of that size. Why wouldn’t I? Is there something I’m not getting? How much work do you think is acceptable trying to win a bid of that size? An hour or two maybe?
I guess it all depends on how hungry you are, and by the sounds of things you are doing well enough that you would find this unacceptable. Fine. But don’t harp on people willing to go the extra mile to get work (or recognition) just because you’re not.
Lastly, I noticed the delicious irony of the fact you are an iStockphoto contributer. Don’t all your arguments fit in exactly with what professional photographers are saying about ‘Microstock’ photography!? Aren’t you devaluing their work, by undercutting then with an inferior product!!!??
I guess you figure that’s acceptable, but everyone be damned who threatens *your* living doing the exact same thing.
Hypocrite.
A question to Michael – if this is such a great way to get good redesign, how come you didn’t do this for your own site?
Mark,
I thought you might have a point, but I couldn’t see it due to the enormous strawman in the way.
It’s two days to create a fully functional system according to all of my specs. Obviously you can’t do a very good job of it in two days, which was part of the point. This kind of thing doesn’t result in good work, not compared to hiring a professional directly.
The issue here is not some sort of ridiculous “old media vs. new media” thing. Please. The issue is that when enough companies start getting amateurs to do free work, that devalues non-free work. Just like it would in any industry. If you could have programming contests that resulted in full applications, then it would lower the value of hiring teams of professional programmers to do it.
Should designers go the extra mile to woo clients? Of course. I do that myself. I’ve done unsolicited mockups for presentations. But that’s the key. Unsolicited. And they didn’t get to use them afterwards. That’s in no way the same as asking for free work.
Also, you might want to learn something about iStock before making statements about it. Many of its contributors (which I am not one of, though I do purchase stock from them) are, in fact, full-time professional photographers that make a good living from their iStock work. I know, I’ve had many conversations with them. They get paid for every image that is used by someone. How that is the same as asking for free work, I don’t know.
“It’s two days to create a fully functional system according to all of my specs. Obviously you can’t do a very good job of it in two days, which was part of the point. This kind of thing doesn’t result in good work, not compared to hiring a professional directly.”
I agree that it doesn’t result in good work but that wasn’t your argument. You argued that doing it would be somehow offensive or immoral, as in:
“do you really think that would go over well?”
Try not to change the subject which is the morality of design contests and spec work.
“The issue is that when enough companies start getting amateurs to do free work, that devalues non-free work. Just like it would in any industry.”
Again, I agree. However, none of the work is free. The company has agreed to pay for what they use. Designers can take their rejected designs and re-sell or re-purpose them elsewhere. Sure, there is lost time involved but so what? The designers assumed the risk upfront in the hope that they would reap the reward. Same thing with someone posting a photo to iStock. The work is already done and there is no guarantee they will get paid a single cent for it.
“If you could have programming contests that resulted in full applications, then it would lower the value of hiring teams of professional programmers to do it.”
Programmers doing work for free! GASP! Who ever heard of such a travesty?
Oh yeah it’s called free and open source software (FOSS). There’s usually not even a contest or reward involved, and yet people still contribute on their own accord. The horror! And note that there are even plenty of companies (Techcrunch, Apple, Google etc) making lots of money on the backs of all this free work. And yet still you rarely hear programmers complaining.
“Also, you might want to learn something about iStock before making statements about it.”
I actually work in related field so I know the ins and outs, and some of the players better than most. But thanks for clarifying that there’s no controversy at all regarding microstock photography. professional photography groups aren’t up in arms over it, and traditional stock photographers aren’t making the exact same arguments you make. Thanks for clearing that up.
“.. full-time professional photographers that make a good living from their iStock work. I know, I’ve had many conversations with them. They get paid for every image that is used by someone.”
Well I know people who make good money doing simple design work on spec. I know, I’ve had many conversations with them. They too get paid for every design that is used by someone.
And one more comment on this:
“The issue is that when enough companies start getting amateurs to do free work, that devalues non-free work. Just like it would in any industry.”
Consider substituting ‘nearly free’ for ‘free’ and it’s the exact same thing as Microstock vs Traditional Stock. Again, I agree with you here – it sucks, just don’t think you’re the only industry facing this problem, nor should you expect special treatment.
Do what your photography friends have done – adapt to the new reality and try and find a way to make it work to your advantage. Learn, adapt and think outside the box… Sitting around complaining about how other people do business is frankly annoying.
These contests are a great way to get cheap design work, and to avoid having to pay professionals properly.
See the No Spec website for more:
http://www.no-spec.com/
Hey, since I graduated from design school some ten years ago, I always saw design contest here and there. The olympics logo is usually chosen from a contest and so on. I think this is a self balancing thing. If you offer 10.000 Euro as a prize (for just 1 page design) you will be overpaying for design, and probably get a quite good designer to do the job. If you offer just 500 Euros, the quality of work will suffer greatly as you will atract a lot less good designers. You will be underpaying and losing quality. See what I mean?
I dont support spec work as a modus operandi per se. But I´m not demonizing every design contest neither. It´s clear that bad prizes atract bad design and that is bad for designers as a whole. But I think is not the case here with such a good (and greatly overpaid) prize.
What’s the big deal? Nobody’s forcing designers to participate. Think it’s a scam? Good. Don’t do it. Web designers are in a competitive market and many struggle to make ends meet. If a designer is willing to spend some time making a couple of mockups for a shot at winning a contract, knowing full well that they might not win, that’s their choice. Perhaps somebody else will see one of their designs and contact them about work. Perhaps not. Isn’t free will great?
And to all you complaining designers: get over it. Designers (yes the good ones) are a commodity. There’s nothing you do that tens of thousands of other designers around the world can’t do. You have to compete and the buyer is in the driver’s seat.
@Crying Designers: That’s why these types of designs came out. nobody did participate in that contest, at least no good designer i’ve heard off.
First of all, I’m glad to see openBC doing so well — congratulations guys!
Now, regarding the comparison of LinkedIn vs. openBC traffic numbers…
There’s a key difference: openBC has discussion forums and open private messaging. There is public interaction. There is private messaging just because two people want to chat.
LinkedIn has no public interaction whatsoever. LinkedIn’s private messaging is intended to be only one message between two people via the LinkedIn interface, then after that they move to e-mail or whatever. It’s transactional.
Therefore it would seem perfectly sensible to me that LinkedIn would, even being used as designed, generate far fewer page views per person or per session than openBC (or Ecademy or any of the other networking sites that have clubs/networks/blogs/private messaging/etc.) would. In fact, if it weren’t, I would say it wasn’t delivering on its core value proposition: getting more done with less effort.
openBC and LinkedIn are different tools that can co-exist perfectly well in the businessperson’s toolkit.
Thank you, Mark. +1
Interesting discussion, but as an OpenBC user I have to add that the contest is more interesting than the usual design something contest.
OpenBC is quite german centric no question about that, but in germany it already is the leading online business community.
It’s my primary tool to get new business contacts and it works perfectly well, now winning the contest will give a young design team a lot of attention in the leading german business community, that’s worth a lot more than 10.000 Euros.
And all they have to do is design an entry for a profile page, not a complete redesign or anything like that.
This is definitly the best design competition I have seen in a long while.
Xing is launched now, the old brand name openBC will no be used any more.
The new design looks freser and usability for new users is improved.