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P.S. degenerates and obsessions are okay with me on techcrunch.

Sorry for helping to get the discussion off into the gender wars. I second your plea, “Can we please have more news on startups and new web technology???” It’s ironic that this discussion degenerated into acrimony about race and gender and all that (sorry, group!) given that what Marshall excels at is delineating the features of Web 2.0 tools a la Solution Watch:

http://www.solutionwatch.com/

and we definitely don’t want TechCrunch to degenerate into the power lunch obsessions of John Batelle and of Search Engine Watch.

Shelley – Why dont you take a strong stance against the lack of women in Trades/Building, when was the last time you saw a femal Plumber/Mechanic/Builder/Concreter/Electrician/etc, why should you be focusing on just the tech industry??? Wouldnt that mean you are being racist against all the other industries out there???

I don’t know if anyone could say that a person’s race or gender automatically qualifies or disqualifies him/her for effecting positive change in a company, but there’s no doubt there’s a blindness in most of the dominant corporate culture borne out of comfortable provincialism and/or hidebound arrogance, and if one were to look at surface indications, it seems that Microsoft is going for more of the same and is not reading the writing on the wall.

Still, I don’t know of many tech moguls on the level of Bill Gates when it comes to imposing arrogance upon the marketplace (e.g., buy-and-let-die acquisitions and giving the finger to web standards). Will the new Wizard give Microsoft a heart and brain to go with its courage? Who knows?

That wikipedia link definitely was useful (even though the bulk of the edits were done by shellyp). Those are some pretty interesting books ! I also came across this interesting article by her on oreilly.com on “death of a startup”.

Her point is “But it’s one pudgy, middle aged white guy replaced by two other pudgy, middle aged white guys.” which goes to show that she is negatively judging Ray Ozzie just because he is white and middle-aged (and pudgy ?). Some other demographic, like if he was a black woman, that would have been preferable for her.

How about appreciating and evaluating the “brain”, instead of judging folks on how their support system for the brain (”the body”) looks like ? And of course, no two brains are exactly similar.

Have a good weekend !

But no, those who dominate in the profession need not be held accountable. I wonder then, what these same people would say about thew new study which shows a higher burn out rate, stress, and dissatisfaction in the tech field above all others. Perhaps, just perhaps, if the field was more diverse, those in it, including white and asian males, would be happier.

Personally I find it interesting that the field with the least women is also the field where the people are the most miserable.

As for discounting what you’ve said, I don’t believe I mentioned once about you betraying your sisters, or the ’cause’. If anything, I think I’ve been more tolerant of your opinion and your right to express it, then you have been of mine. Yet you say I ‘whine’. I would say you have forgotten the hard work of others in the past, which I find surprising in a librarian. And somewhat disappointing.

As for Marshall, he has been very kind to allow this thread to continue, and I’m appreciative. I most likely won’t be back to comment after this, primarily because I should save this for a ‘room of my own’, whenever I decide to set one up again. Marshall, thank you for allowing me to sidetrack your thread.

Ryan, would you say when Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus that the crap at that time was getting out of hand? There is never an end to the time to fight for equality, based on any factor. It’s not always fun, and it doesn’t necessarily fit into the sound bite mentality that weblogging is beginning to foster (more’s the pity).

Varum, your comment reminded me of another I read a while back. It read:

“Dr. Jacobi says: “We are perfectly well aware that industrial and professional competition are entirely different matters from popular sovereignty. But when we find the same instincts aroused, the same opposition excited, the same arguments advanced, and the same determination manifested, by trade unions, to exclude women from trades, by learned societies to exclude them from professions, by universities to exclude them from learning, and by voters to exclude them from the polls, we cannot avoid asking whether the difference in the cases is not balanced by the identity in the mental attitude of the opponents.” The best trades unions have admitted women to their protective and wage associations, or, better still, have helped them to form their own; the worst trades unions, the socialistic and anarchistic, have claimed for them the right to vote. The learned societies are admitting them professionally as fast as they make themselves worthy. The men who hold out against their admission to men’s universities are precisely the class of men who have been most active in assisting to found for them equal colleges of their own, and they are also the men who are most strenuous against their admission to the polls. In medicine, while co-education is deemed better than ignorance, the tendency is to separate the sexes is study as fast as facilities can be made equal. The opponents of woman’s progress and those of woman suffrage are of opposite classes, and their mental attitudes are entirely different. How much harm the struggle for “popular sovereignty” for women has done in hindering the progress of industrial and professional competition, can be judged somewhat by the success of the letter and the failure of the former in the highest fields. It is a significant fact that women do not avail themselves of opportunities open to them in the professions to the extent that it has been claimed they would. The medical examination advertised in January, 1896, by the New York State Civil Service Commission for woman candidates, failed for lack of applicants, although the salaries of women in the State hospitals range from $1,000 to $1,500 a year.”

This is from the work, “Women and the Republic” by Helen Kendrick Johnson. She was writting in opposition to giving women the vote. Why? Because in her opinion, we didn’t need it. After all, the men, those same pesky white guys who probably didn’t look much different than the four pictured in this post, were willing to give us what we ‘needed’. The work deemed proper was there for us. And if we were expected to be mothers and wives, why this freed up our time from having to earn a salary. The demand for the right to vote was considered a slap in the face to these kind and generous gentlemen.

So I return full circle: where is the surprise in this story?

An interesting discussion on the wikipedia entry at : http://en.wikip.../Shelley_Powers

Her point was “But it’s one pudgy, middle aged white guy replaced by two other pudgy, middle aged white guys.” which goes to show that she is negatively judging Ray Ozzie just because he is white and middle-aged (and pudgy ?). Some other demographic, like if he was a black woman, that would have been preferable for her.

How about appreciating and evaluating the “brain”, instead of judging folks on how their support system for the brain (”the body”) looks like ?

Calling her racist is just whacky.

Go Bill, though. Everything’s right about making a difference in the world.

Great for Shelley. She has a wikipedia entry, which she could have created herself.

I don’t care if she’s the president of the Intergalactic Federation of Women In Technology… her comments are inane.

Same with people backing her up here… Azrael’s “Black woman = strong individual.”…. WHAT???!?

This crap has gotten out of hand in our society. Being a black woman doesn’t make you a strong individual anymore than being a white man does. You are a strong individual if your character and actions dictate that you are, not your (MF’ING) skin color or the presence or absence of a penis.