SocialText/wikiCalc: More Interesting Than Google Spreadsheets

All these spreadsheets really look like a solution in search of a problem. Are there any users here who actually think they would use this, and why?

It seems to me that it would be extremely easy for MSFT to add sharing functions to Excel and destroy this market instantly.

Mark,

MS is adding this functionality to the next version of office, and there are other ways currently to share excel online (but its clunky). But competition is good. And just like every company doesn’t use MS exchange server, there’s room here for socialtext to play.

Don’t forget Jotspot, this should definitely be included in this article as it offers a very business oriented solution also.

regards
Al

Actually Mike it would be great if you could do a round up of all of the current spreadsheet offerings :

Numbler, NumSum, EditGrid, Soho Spreadsheet, Irows, Google’s spreadsheet, WikiCalc + others

To Mark - It’s about collaboration and we are just scratching the surface here, check out this article : http://www.folknology.com/blog/1/1/2006/3/7/57 about what could be coming very soon.

regards
Al

“More interesting than Google Spreadsheets” is a great title for this piece — and I completely agree. Knowing both Dan and Ross personally I have hopes for this partnership.

>> It seems to me that it would be extremely easy for MSFT to add sharing functions to Excel and destroy this market instantly.

Well MSFT has been trying to add sharing features to Excel for years and:

a) people simply don’t seem to use it; people don’t seem to use any of the new features in office.

b) the location independence that web 2.0 apps bring to the world (as opposed to client side apps) honestly makes life dramatically EASIER.

We’re all working more and working in more places so the ability to modify a spreadsheet via the web is huge. It means that you can use any browser anywhere not just your personal laptop with your personal copy of excel. It also means you don’t have to worry about “Where’s the damn file” which is an increasing problem now that our drives are so big.

Michael, why do you feel the need to put “More Interesting than Google Spreadsheet” in the title? You’re now taking shots at them in the title of your posts about someone else’s competing product?

I think, as someone commented on the big Google debate (in one of your previous posts), you harbor sour gripes towards Google. You do so because they don’t reveal their game plan to you? Why should they? Would your comments be more favourable had you had lunch with the founders of Google and not Microsoft?

Since this is another spreadsheet, why don’t you repeat what you said on the Google Spreadsheet post “…while Google released a very nice Ajax spreadsheet today, they didn’t exactly change the world.” or “as if this was the first spreadsheet he’d ever seen.” Or does this spreadsheet change the world? Me thinks readers need to take Google related posts on this site with large grains of salt.

Michael, I’ve only been reading techcrunch for several months, so maybe my opinion isn’t well documented…

Anyways, I find that your take in Google news is a bit unfair. If Google does something, it’s usually “nothing new” or has privacy issues or it’s unoriginal or “why would anybody use it?”. And if other people make similar things, that’s suddenly interesting, better done than Google… Ok, I generaise a lot, but you get the idea.

Of course, maybe I’m completly wrong here, but that’s the feeling I get. Am I wrong?

Can you clarify? The main plus to this in your view as opposed to Google Spreadsheets and the other preexisting products out there seems to be that you say it solves the problem for those who don’t want to store data with a third party “like Google.” But isn’t the data being stored on the servers of Socialtext, a third party? If that’s the case, more correctly, then this is a solution for those who might not trust storing data with Google but will roll that dice with another third party. And if that’s the selling point, the main downside is that a smaller third party is likely to go out of business, perhaps taking your data with it.

SocialText has a behind-the-firewall-solution, so the WikiCalc data would be managed on the internal cloud.

I beleive Zimbra also has an ALE based spreadsheet in the works for the enterprise
http://www.zimbra.com/blog/arc.....dding.html

why do i have to search for the licence on the homepage and finding nothing… who would try out a software before knowing what it will cost?

wiki with spreatsheet plugin?
checkout
http://tikiwiki.org/
and
http://twiki.org/
and many more… with no licence secret at all

It is interesting to see that yet another company is proving that in order for online apps. to survive, they need to be more than scaled down online versions of Excel.

Yes, the principle is great but people’s requirements will soon be greater than most application’s ability to handle them.

Something like wikicalc or irows, where the online spreadhseet is their bread and butter will excel (pun intended!) when they create power tools more comparable to the ultimate of spreadsheets apps., MSFT Excel.

There are a couple of things I like about this approach:

1) Spreadsheets usually make sense in the context of an unstructured conversation. Oftentimes this conversation happens in a series of emails with spreadsheets attached (or, in more advanced cases, links to spreadsheets on a shared filesystem). The ability to embed or link spreadsheets in the context of a conversation (now moved to a wiki page) makes complete sense.

2) You get rid of the email thread problems (disjointed threads), and the version control problem that happens with spreadsheet attachments. Also, when the spreadsheets are eventually forgotten, they at least grow old and moldy along with their original context.

Of course, adoption is another story. Email+attachments works because it’s a well-trodden path, and the email client is always open. It’s difficult to push people to groupware unless there’s a critical mass. (I apologize in advance for referring to a wiki as groupware.)

Michael,

I think you’re right to deem this more interesting than Google’s effort. It’s surprising to me that the issue of storing information in a 3rd party (say Google’s) control isn’t taken more seriously. Especially in light of recent incidents of data loss and control. I would have thought that awareness would have improved, esp for readers of this blog :). I work for a company where the idea of storing corporate data in a Google spreadsheet has the same attraction has having a load of bricks fall on my head. wikiCalc, now is a different matter. Much more relevant. If the idea of Google spreadsheets is to only handle home and personal spreadsheets - well it’s not destined for much relevance. Google’s approach only makes sense if this is a prelude to a product - a la the wikiCalc model.

This is the Gmail effect taking place. Google enters a space and it ups the value of all the little start ups who were there before them.

Jotspot just announced that Tracker will be included in all of the new wikis. Previously, Tracker was standalone and you had to pay for it separately.

Et pour découvrir les autres tableurs en ligne, c’est ici :

http://mael.le.hir.free.fr/blo.....-tableurs/

I mention this ten days before the launch of Telecryption, because it is a hot topic. In GroupFactor-based networks, such as Quiknets.com, you right click to set up a “meeting room”, a common folder, and then right-click again to designate who should have entry there, and only those. Then upload your Excel or other document.
With Telecryption installed, you set a password for all data in the meeting room, which is automatically conveyed to the encryption keyboxes of the members of the room. Therafter all data into and out of the room is automatically en/decrypted , but only locally at those members’ computers. Always under their control.
Further, you right-click the Excel document. It decrypts. You edit it and save/close. It does not need renaming. It reencrypts and reloads itself in the meeting room. What we call “semi-transparent” encrypted online editing.
You do need to have the Excel app installed locally. So, perhaps this system is an illustration of the “serviced client”, described by Phil Wainewright on June 1
Telecryption itself sits locally but is managed from the network, via IE.(So far).

It’s interesting that SocialText is targeting businesses with wikiCalc. Business users are perhaps more demanding of their spreadsheet than home users and I don’t think any online spreadsheets are quite ready to tackle that market yet. Being able to control your own data is definitely an advantage that wikiCalc has over Google, though. But I believe when Google begins offering a version of their spreadsheet aimed at businesses, they will also sell as an appliance that allows users to store their own data much like the Google search appliance.

mikie
one thing shld be seen very clearly in google context, they want user to use google for maximum time, they want user to spen more time in google server than in MSFT software. I think the aim of google is not to provide every thing new but to just provide every thing. but i still feel that their services are not interlinked properly.
hey who knows when someone may recquire a photo in spreadsheet
google’s primary source of income is advertisement, so be it. more u remain in googles network, more will they earn.
and for google, they might try to build virtual desktop app, though its already there.
but linking is the key to success for models like google.

The most compelling thing I saw in Google Spreadsheets that most people have not commented on, is thet the changes made are made in real-time. With a wiki, we are stuck in the versioning model, where multiple people work on multiple drafts and ultimately one is chosen. You can do that with Google Spreadsheets as well, by choosing Save As and giving it a name (version1, version2, etc).

Google’s real-time editing however, allows spreadsheets to be edited in a conversational fasion, with a chat function alongside it.

While I agree that Google is overrated in general as the darling of the internet, and they have MANY issues to work out with Google Spreadsheets, they do provide a compelling entry into the market.

Some of the comments point to what seem to be an unfair way to talk about google.

I saw your post earlier this week about google spreadsheets and with this both this products are nothing new. I don’t see why one would be better than the other.

Spreadsheets (Excel) is used for more things that just putting data in a table. Being able to extend excel using macros is the biggest feature that people use in enterprises and even small businesses. Some of them actually only have excel to manage their sales and inventory and such. Yet it’s a poor choice providing all the technology and software out there but it makes for a smoother learning curve for the users. And that’s where the power of Excel and even Office lays. Small web apps are not going to revolutianize it.

This may come out as a rant, that is not the intent it’s more of a why all the hype for nothing.

This is truly interesting, and I think more compelling than what Google is offering. I like both SocialText and WikiCalc a lot. As Michael points out above, Excel Services in Office 2007 provides a way to share spreadsheets on the server, render in the browser (IE + Firefox) and access via web service APIs. http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/ar.....90502.aspx

I watched the WikiCalc screencast and it is very cool that you can make cells into their own Wikis within the spreadsheet though!

Hi~ This is Tony from Team and Concepts.

There’s in fact another one by us called EditGrid.

One thing that may interests you is that we allows a lot more choices of sharing: share to a user, share to public, and share with password. You can also fine-tune whether people can read or write. We tried to make the link for sharing the spreadsheet more human readable, and here’s an example: http://www.editgrid.com/tnc/pk....._v._Google. If you append “.xls” to the end of the url, you can even get the exported version immediately!

So you may wish to try it also!

=)

Hi! Nice site!