May 28, 2006

Limbo Auctions: Gimmick or the Real Deal?

Michael Arrington

71 comments »

Limbo is a San Mateo, California startup with funding from Draper Fisher Jurvetson and Azure Capital. The purpose of the service is to auction off things like plasma TVs, iPods, cars and event tickets, with bids being placed via text messages. The hook is that the winner of the item isn’t the highest bidder. The winner of each auction is the person with the lowest unique bid for that auctioin, meaning no other person bid that exact amount. If lots of people bid $0.01 and you are the only person bidding $0.02, you win.

The company is quick to issue press releases around the incredible deals that winner’s managed to get. This press release, for example, talks about a Salt Lake City woman named Sondra Peterson who won a $35,000 Hummer on a bid of $36.65.

It’s not quite that simple, of course, or Limbo wouldn’t have much of a business model. Bids must be placed via text message or via regular phone. I placed a bid on the 42 inch plasma TV and it required a total of four messages - two sent and two received, to finalize it. Based on my pricing plan, that’s $0.22 on my cell phone bill, some of which Limbo will receive in revenue share. Also, the TV is a Limbo premium auction, which means I was charged an additional $0.99 for my bid. That’s a total cost to me of $1.21, and Limbo is going for more: my last text message said

“Too High! Your bid of 1938c is unique, but there are 265 lower unique bids. Bid again? Rply “HDTB XX” where XX is yr bid in cents. *Bid award: 10 Loot”

If I place another bid, another round of text messages will be billed to my phone along with another $0.99 bid charge. With all of these charges it isn’t hard to see how Limbo can become profitable on a per auction basis. All of these “loot” points are designed to get me to bid often as well. You get these each time you bid, and they can be traded in for tshirts and other items once you’ve accumulated enough of them.

If you aren’t skeptical enough after understanding the basics, the fine print may be enough to keep you away.

Auctions run for a very long time (the TV auction runs from May 15 to June 5. Such a long auction period means there will be a lot of bids, and the chances of winning go down dramatically. Once you place a bid you are automatically going to receive a text message every time a new auction occurs, which you can opt out of only by sending another text message. If you use your home phone, things may be even worse. Limbo explicitly states that they will use your information for marketing purposes. Expect tele-sales calls.

And if you win, shipping isn’t free. You will be charged normal UPS rates on the item (or alternatively you can give them rights you use your picture for promotional purposes). And finally, you will be taxed on the difference between the value of the item and what you actually paid as normal income. So that Hummer that Sondra Peterson won cost her a lot more than $36.65. Not only was she taxed on $35,000 in income, but I can’t imagine what the UPS shipping charges on a Hummer might be. :-)

So all in all, the vast majority of bidders will be paying Limbo without any meaningful chance of winning, they will be subjecting themselves to numerous SMS and other fees, they will be giving explicit consent to use their phone numbers for marketing purposes, and the winners are forced to pay out of pocket fees for taxes and shipping of the item. So, after trying out the service and reading the detailed rules, Limbo seems like more of a gimmick to me (and a costly one) than a chance to get cool stuff for nearly free.

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Comments

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  1. Ari Mir

    I really hope this idea doesn’t take off.

  2. Scott

    I think you’re missing a few points Michael, first, she won the the Hummer in the companies hometown, so it wasn’t shipped to her (I know it was a joke, just covering all my bases.) Secondly, that press release says you can bid by toll free phone as well. So therein eliminating the text messages fees altogether and sort of making it like an eBay/Radio Auction ripoff. Feel free to correct me if that phone number is something else :)

  3. Michael Arrington

    Scott, will you send me a pointer to the toll free number?

  4. Micheal

    To be honest this idea has been around for a while. Here in the UK ( not sure about other nations ) this idea has been used by radio shows, tv channels , internet gaming sites etc to do such a thing ( ie lowest unique bid wins ) as with the above idea users text in their bid .

    So this idea is neither unique , new and honestly don’t know why it has been covered . This blog is going down hill.

  5. Michael Arrington

    Michael - its a new and funded startup in silicon valley and I’ve covered things like this since I started this blog. Don’t be a troll.

  6. Pete

    #4 - if this blog is going downhill it’s becasue jerkoffs like you leave stupid comments. why don’t you go beat your wife or whatever it is that people like you do for fun.

  7. caw

    Complete (almost) copy of Bidmax in the UK which has been up for quite some time.

  8. Michael Arrington

    caw - you’re right, its very similar - http://www.bid-max.com/us/

    thanks for pointing it out.

  9. Joe

    hmmm i too am from the UK and i soon as i saw this it reminded me of all those horrific Jamster-eque adverts that are apparantly the lifeblood music TV channels over here. For example, i just saw one today where you have to ‘guess’ whether a picture of screw was in fact of a screw or of a bottle and then text in your answer, only to be charge 50p for the privilage. the woman kept saying ‘text now’ about 50 million times, as though if she kept saying it you might actually do it, whilst the text at the bottom of the screen, though high (presumably to meet regulations), was really narrow to make it hard to read the costs. maybe 6 months later you’ll got those in the US?

    i don’t think the site is “going down hill”, but i’m not exactly sure what this has to do with web 2.0, other than it is a startup in silicon valley, which means it is near to web 2.0 start ups geographically. at least, i suppose, it means we can compare where the US is in terms of SMS funded services vs. the UK.

  10. Michael Arrington

    I love comments.

  11. Jon Smirl

    After reading all of the fine print on the HDTV auction it doesn’t look to me like they are trying to make all their money off from SMS. “Submit a Phone Entry for free by calling 1-877-771-9257 and entering the numeric value of your Bid. ”

    Time period is clearly stated: “Beginning on May 15th, 2006 at 12:00 PM PT and ending on June 6th, 2006 at 12:00 P.M. PT”

    This part is more of a problem. “If you submitted a Phone Entry, your home phone will be called with the notification. During the Eligibility Period, Sponsor, at its discretion, may send entrants unlimited additional notifications. There is no limit as to the number of notifications Sponsor may send during the Eligibility Period nor restriction on when notifications may be sent.”

    Have you just signed up for telemarketing hell?

  12. David

    Nothing but a lottery with a trivial twist. Each of 100K people makes a small payment of $1 (buy a ticket or 10 text messages, whatever), and one of them (the right number, lowest unique number, whatever) wins a $35K prize. As long as enough morons play, the profit is guaranteed.

    Here is the VC pitch: Assuming 1B internet users, 20% market penetration, each users plays 10 times a year and 50% margin, you got a $1B company. Add to that a share on all the ads to be displayed on the 100″ flat panel prize over its 5 years life, and we have the next GoogleFacebookMySpace.

  13. Jon Smirl

    “Nothing but a lottery with a trivial twist.” Lotteries like that are illegal in the US. They have to allow the free entry by telephone as outlined in comment #11.

    They are selling advertising impressions when the sponsor annoys you to death with ‘notifications’.

  14. Scott

    Michael, look in the next to last paragraph on your press release URL.

    “With over ten national cell phone carriers participating, mobile users simply visit http://www.41414.com to see current auctions and bid by text messaging ‘FREE’ to 41414; or you can call in from your home phone line on 1 877 771 9257.”

  15. Michael Arrington

    Yep, saw it. Thank you. I made some clarifications to the post.

  16. Search Engines WEB

    http://www.41414.com/auction.php?id=1002549

    Limbo is supported by:
    • The phone networks who share their text messaging revenue with us
    • Brands that want to create awareness and increase visibility of their great products
    and new releases

    ==================================

    http://www.41414.com/rules.php?id=1002549

    If you do not want to receive further notifications, send an SMS message to 41414 with the message “STOP” from the wireless phone where the bid was entered, or call 1-877-771-9257 and select option 9 from the residential home phone number where the bid was entered.

  17. Don Wilson

    There are many, many sites just like this one that require the bidder to pay said bid amount to actually get their number in. I can’t be bothered to read the whole post to see if that is what’s happening here or not, but if it is, the only thing new is that you have to waste time typing in words through your number pad (worst experience, ever) because who can be bothered with using a computer?

  18. Darren McLaughlin

    Can’t say I’d find much use for that. Sounds like a business model that’s in trouble early on.

    Talk about being “nickled and dimes to death”.

  19. grant

    Just by way of TechCrunch explains it I am already feeling dizzy. This startup is waste of money and people’s time and whoever started it should be pulled out and bitten. If a site involves so much explaination and work to get people to use it. It will die soon. The gimmick involved sounds more like a tricky manuever instead of a real, legal, beneficial business model. It’s a joke!

  20. KPR

    You can digg this story here http://digg.com/links/Limbo,_SMS_Auctions

  21. pwb

    Geez, what’s with all the “this has been done a million times before…yawn”? Sure, it’s not going to cure cancer but it’s at least a tiny bit interesting.

  22. Perry

    It may have been done before but I have never seen it on this side of the pond. There are TONS of innovations waiting to be brought over from other countries. Is this is the best the UK has to offer?

  23. Jonas

    The broader point here is the creative use of the cellphone! A vastly under utilized resource.

    This particular project is not all that intriguing… but, the space is worth your attention.

  24. Michael Arrington

    Jonas. We’re on it. See http://www.mobilecrunch.com. :-)

  25. web20guy

    Sort of like jigsaw. almost “evil” - or am i wrong?

  26. Miguel Paraz

    I think the owners forgot the original meaning of “Limbo.”

  27. Ken Rossi : CivilNetizen.com

    Why is it there is a critical point in any community site where a lot of the readers become haters but yet they still read and troll the site?

    Michael, 37signals has a troll cap you can annoint people with. I think you should start using it.
    http://www.37signals.com/svn/a.....ll_cap.php

  28. Michael Arrington

    web20guy - I don’t think this is evil, yet. If they send an unreasonable number of random text messages or start a telesales blitz, I’ll rethink that. For now, I just think it’s misleading people into paying a buck or two when they have no real chance of winning, and if they do win they get hit with a massive tax bill.

  29. Umar Akram

    I have been keeping an eye on Limbo since its early existence. I thought DFJ were some smart guys specially Draper himself (which im sure he still is..but but), but the business model around Limbo is not scalable at all. The bidding process through premium sms (over charged sms where Operator keep usually from 19.5-40%, the premium sms access provider take 10-20% and the remaining one is given after VAT etc to Content Provider, which in this case is Limbo).

    What I am skeptical of, is the bundling package of using a limbo bidders mobile nr for marketing purposes and the sucbscription which surrounds Limbos business model. We all know very well the “Jamba” case in EU being sued by hundred of people for not clearly stating the terms and conditions when purchasing a content through Jambas subscription packages.

    Limbo is lame, TURN the business model around, cut that subscription model, yes I understand you want to earn more money on getting the user bidding more and more. but then let the user invite others to bid too if some thing is “kool”. In this way spread the nr of bidders by inviting more (still through sms-sms) rather making one l6 year old college student spend upto 6$ for a plasma screen ( it does come to a shock later when his phone bill comes and he is NOT coming back to you Limbo).

  30. Michael Arrington

    Ken Rossi - I hadn’t seen that, thanks for linking. I love the idea in general. :-)

  31. anon

    why is it called limbo? the shortcode doesn’t even spell that out…

  32. Don Wilson

    anon - think of the game, limbo.

  33. joey

    http://www.pricerightauctions.com/ This site has been doing it for years. I “won” a digital camera from them once. gambling bidding is fun!

  34. Richard Dean

    DFJ funded this? I thought they had a decent reputation for funding businesses, this is a gimmick.

  35. Peter K

    I don’t know how the average Joe is supposed to feel confident about this. As soon as they “the consumer” see all the charges and complexity of bidding and billing … I think they’ll shy away and not take part.

  36. cram

    Hi Michael

    This idea was used as a special campaign by http://www.baazee.com (an auction site based in India, now acquired by eBay) a long time ago. I remember placing quite a few bids for cameras and cell-phones, only to be informed that someone esle had placed a lower unique bid (unique was the catchword). Only registered users who had acquired enough points through transactions were eligible. It did appeal to me as a very novel idea, but not one that would last long-term (after all, for how long can you give away goodies at one-hundredth of the retail price). Let’s see how far Limbo’s able to carry this.

  37. Bryan Bartow

    I agree with Richard Dean. I’m shocked that DFJ would put any amount of money into this. I thought everyone learned their lesson after the first bubble. Guess not.

  38. Tom Lyons

    There is another site which launched last year called uniqueauction.com, same concept minus the mobile text message thing.

    Again you pay per bid, you can see what the current lowest bid is and sabotage it by bidding on the next lowest unique biod and then bidding on the current lowest unique making yours the lowest.

    It turns more into a game of trying to position yourself into the winning bid. But for a $50.00 dollar itme you may spend $30.00 bidding and 3.22 to win the item. I’m pretty sure the site is doing well and was self funding by the Rocky Mirza who started Ibetx.com. Ibetx.com was a bettign site based in the UK.

  39. Brandon

    I tried this out a couple months ago - I don’t remember exactly what I was bidding on (I obviously didn’t win)…the kicker was that even after the auction was over they kept sending me text messages. Not a lot, maybe one every 2 or 3 weeks….pretty annoying…I finally replied “remove from list” and got a text message back within minutes letting me know I was successfully removed from their sms list.

  40. Nikita

    Hehe… we did a similar site for one of our clients: http://www.flashbid.com. Although with us, all bidding is done online.

  41. doug

    Sounds more like a lottery than an auction.

  42. Mike Jones

    It’s basically theft, no different than the common nigerian money transfer scams. This sort of nonesense should be illegal.

  43. Nick Pang

    this canadian website has been around quite a bit but not that many items to make it truly take off yet… they did a sony ps3 console auction last month and that generated some buzz.

    http://www.uniqueauction.com

  44. Guy

    I also think it’s basically a lottery and the investors are taking a big gamble that the company won’t be shut down by regulators. Where’s the transparency - how do we know that the “lowest unique” bid is, in fact, a real bid? With regular bids, the motivation is obvious. Here, the motivation is the exact opposite - they’re highly motivated to not give the prize away and concot another fake prize to keep SMS revenue flowing in.

    The only news here is that there’s too much capital floating around the valley again with bad ideas like this getting funded.

  45. muggz

    this is just a souped up RAFFLE!

  46. GregR

    Sounds like the bad old Web 1.0 days where any business plan gets funded with any idea. Lets hope this dies.

  47. Paul

    sounds like this idea is based on hype and promotion. but then again people love watching home shopping on tv so who’s to say it won’t work?

  48. Daniele Levy

    This is no difference than than the one million sweepstakes running online on any given day. Go to any major site - Sony, Tropicana, Toyota - and you will get a chance to win big prizes for free in exchange for your personal information. The ‘new’ angle here is that you ‘pick a number’ in order to get a chance to win. In addition, you can either i) pay to play through your cell phone or ii) give away your phone # to play for free. It’s not my cup of tea, but there are millions of web users who truly enjoy these games. Limbo will find their audience - whether they will find a profitable business model remains to be seen.

  49. Christopher Sun

    Its 100% legal, makes good money, and has a huge imprint rate. Although the average TechCrunch reader thinks that state lotteries are stupid waste of money they still make profits in the BILLIONS each year. Just goes to show that the real money to be made via the internet/mobile is not from the technophiles, but rather from the average Joe Smoe. The buzz around Limbo in the VC community was for a good reason.

  50. evan

    wow, this thing sounds pretty complicated.

  51. evan

    nevermind, just tried it out. got mixed up - thought it was a public auction site from the post.

    i didn’t win the mini however.

  52. Meredith

    I have free unlimited text messaging on my plan, so I’m not worried about that. What I am worried about is the fact that I gave these people my full name, home address, and cell phone number…and they’re going to share my information. I’m not too worried about them calling my cell phone, but I am a little worried about receiving paper spam from them and whoever they sell me to. I guess I’m a bit too quick to jump on the bandwagon.

    Also, I found this interesting tidbit in the rules for the Free Gas prize:
    “In the event the winner is a Canadian resident, he/she must correctly answer a time-limited mathematical skill-testing question in order to be eligible for the Prize.”

    Does anybody know what that’s about?

  53. Andrea

    Hi Michael - I fly more in the development finance / philanthropy space than technology, but occasionally they overlap. There *is* an existing site similar to this one on this side of the pond, with a charitable twist: http://www.auctions4acause.com It’s run by a guy with a day job at Agilent. I’m pretty sure he didn’t get VC funding for it… but I’d love to know what he cashes out of it versus what the charities net.

  54. KO

    In South Korea, there had been a few sites(Max10, Lowin) like this a few years ago. At that time, there was no SMS service. At first, it was a big hit, but because of intransparency of the bids, all of them failed. Anyway, the idea itself is not bad. But I’m worried about insiders’ morality. In korea, the insiders used their information to make their friends win the bids.

  55. Daniel CerVentus

    This Lowest unique bid is actually based on a few popular TV contest in Asia. The lastest being Bid It by Channel V (An alternative channel to MTV)
    [http://www.channelv.com/bidit] . Basically their revenue is two fold. one is via Premium SMS charges where an additional fee is charged to the SMS via the telco to the content provided. Secondly, the company actually pay for a slot to be previewed. In channel V the program is a 15 minutes long and the VJ will spend the whole time telling you how to enter the contest and the ‘cool’ features of the product.

    For the bidders. basically it is a gamble like roullete. You have to guess a number. Each sms recieved you be charged Ringgit Malaysia 0.80 ( 3.60 Riggit is about UD$1.00)

  56. 2ezm3g

    很好呀,,,很不错哦,,,支持下啦

  57. Jordan Crocker

    Got to MoeBids.com. I garauntee you they give away real prizes. I have one an ipod off of it just for signing up. My friend won a psp for like 3 bucks too I can vouch they are for real.

  58. Jim Hepworth

    Boy, you are so wrong on so many points. Limbo is GREAT! I love them! I have won, my wife has won, my sister-in-law is Sondra who won the Hummer, my daughter won the Mini Cooper and the list goes on. Basically I’m saying I know what I’m talking about as I have won or helped 12 people win auctions. Just go look at how many winners there are from Salt Lake City, Utah (I know most of them).
    1. While a few of the auctions are Premium (99 cents per bid), many of the auctions are free bids. All the auctions I have helped people win were FREE bids. The Hummer was a free auction, as was the Mini.
    2. There was no shipping on the Hummer or Mini cooper or on any other items I’ve been in on. They do ask that you supply a picture to put up on thier website. Pretty small price to pay.
    3. Bidding does take many Text Messages so get a 2500 or unlimited plan.
    4. The vehicle auctions were like 50 days, but most other auctions are anywhere from 1 day to 7 days average.
    5. All auctions (including premium) have an alternative phone number you can do from a home phone at no cost. Just look at the rules as the number is different for each auction.
    6. Sondra will have to pay income tax on the Hummer’s value. But even at 30% she still clears a $30,000 vehicle for $10,000.

  59. Todd Evans

    it’s gambling. very surprised big companies are participating in this sham.

  60. Jim Hepworth

    It’s not gambling if the bids are free, and they are free on many of the auctions.

  61. Steve Walsh

    This is the original lowest unique bid website. Even the domain names http://www.lowestuniquebidwins, lowestbidwins.com and lowbidwins.com all point to it. It is my website and I sent the idea to venture firms for 5 years and got laughed at. I do have a confirmed legal opinion of the model. Mine never got launched because I have a 40 hour week job and no contacts in the VC world. If you want to parnter or can program to help me get it started back up, my idea was 1st. I even wrote articles in the Anderson, IN Hearald Bulletin 4 - 5 years ago about trying to get it from idea to fruition. If you’re interested in helping me, please email me from the site. thanks. See the October edition of Business 2.0 magazine page 38. Limbo got $9mm in VC money. I have the domain names and need partners to get the original home of the lowest unique bid up and running. )Please help me.

  62. john bowen

    http://WWW.thebidshack.com. Nice idea and your newspaper articles are true. I wish you best of luck in gaining your idea and support in re-launching your site and building the original home of “www.lowestuniquebidwins.com” Best of luck

  63. Ritika Sanghi

    Congs to Trisha Hepworth who won the mini cooper for $50.43

  64. Mary Mary

    hey this thing is for real cause I did win, and it was the very first thing I ever won in my life. I didn’t believe it at first, but I know it is for real now, cause I just received a brand new ipod by fed ex. I did not get it right away, so it made me think it was just a hoax, but ITS NOT AND I KNOW IT! Just try it and really play like you know you want to win, cause YOU CAN!!!!

  65. Jack Hartley

    This is the original site and “Home of the Lowest Unique Bid”. I have contacted the owner and am hoping to help him get his site funded and running….if you’re up for a real venture…..email me, or contact the site. They own all of the domain names:

    http://www.lowestuniquebidwins.com
    lowestbidwins.com
    lowestbidwinz.com
    lowbidwins.com
    lowbidwinz.com
    etc etc….He faxed me the articles and his legal opinion…..all true….Looking for partners to help him,

    best

    Jack

  66. Rob H

    A new contender called bassabids have just start online auctions at bassabids.com