Now everything in the world will be tagged!

While both projects make a valiant attempt at connecting people in everyday life who are discovering things, both still suffer a fatal flaw.

No matter what, both projects could cost a ton of money to the end-user.
Sure, -some- cell phone plans include unlimited sms/picture email options, not everyone has those plans.

Some could be years away from having the ability to use these new projects unlimited, due to the horrible service policies many people are stuck in.

If it was an unlimited world for everyone, these projects would have more universal appeal.

This is not new and has been widely used in Japan for years.

“Is Mytago a winner? I don’t think so. Given how easy it is to put up a website, I don’t know why people wouldn’t just put up a site with whatever information they like, and include a web address in their offline poster or other stuff.”

Because you can’t expect people to write down or remember the URL they see randomly on a poster. With a camera phone, it’s fast and easy.

why bother mytago, the idea was done years ago already and better and with more users (or?):

http://semapedia.org/

http://www.semacode.org/

mytago is too much beta, semapedia.org is supported by Sun and five other institutions.

@nana: Agreed, people won’t remember the URL or write it down. But if you are going to use your cellphone to capture an image, why not just capture the URL itself.(or just take a voice memo).

With Mytago, I would have to take the picture, then upload or email the picture, then login to MyTago, to finally get to the destination URL. It seems like a lot of trouble just to get to a website.

People can just setup a free blog account, and use the email publishing feature, to upload their camera phone ‘bookmark’ photos.

As nana says these codes are widely available in Japan. The system is called a QR code, and phiones are set up to read and convert the pic directly from a “Read Barcode” selection on the phone menu. It is much easier than typing the URL. Because the reader is built in to the phone it is likely QR codes will become popular in the US too.

A large proportion of print ads and poster, and even bsiness cards, have the codes on them. Here’s one on a T-shirt: http://www.crisscross.com/jp/picture/1444

We have one on our Japan web site so that users dont ned to type the URL for our mobile site. http://www.crisscross.com/jp (scroll down to the bottom left).

More info on the codes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code

Mark and Nana, thanks for your comments. The wikipedia entry is interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code). It would be cool to have the phone actually recognize the code direclty, and I see real value in that.

I’ve updated the post to include information on QR codes. Thank you for pointing it out.

This is one of many reasons why comments are so incredibly valuable to a blog.

Unlike the cue:cat, which was publishing barcodes in magazines where a URL would make way more sense, these kind of poster-type tags are perfect for mobile phones - when you aren’t near your computer. It would take your mobile phone being smart enough to recognize you’ve taken a picture of one, but surely the advertiser would be happy to pay the mobile phone companies a bit for being the interface to whatever information the barcode held, rather than forcing the subscriber to do so.

The difference between this and a standard URL is that it also gives the advertiser some information on where its leads are coming from. Combined with a special offer that requires using the barcode, you’ve almost got a model for pay-per-click real world poster advertising.

I would imagine it would be easier just to give everything a unique number rather than a symbol, right? Are there underlying benefits in a specific tag? I guess it’s more secure - but then why not just offer up randomly generated string of 10 digits. This seems like way to much work for the underlying purpose it serves - more shock value than service value from what I can see.

Bar codes help people promote mobile sites in everyday situations and circumstances. Current camera phones now have good enough optics, resolution and processing power to be able to read these special bar codes on the printed materials we come across each day. As such, WINKsite provides a set of unique bar codes (Datamatrix/Semacode, QR Code, and mCode) for each of our publishers that link directly to their mobile sites and communities. With the ability to create a universally accessible mobile site that’s connected to physically distributed bar codes, we see our publishers creating a wide range of useful applications.

(Note: Nokia has just released a bar code reader has been successfully tested with both Datamatrix and QR Codes.)

These applications include:

* linking print articles to RSS feeds and blogs
* delivering product or tourist information
* linking “lost pet” flyers to contact forms
* dating - use your imagination on that one
* “find me” maps
* promoting an event or concert on flyers/postcards
* connecting geocachers to mobile logbooks
* creating museum exhibits and street tours
* building scavenger hunts or “collect-them-all” games
* downloading ringtones, music, wallpapers or video (think indie artists)
* ticket sales for clubs
* directing people to your mobile site and/or storefront
* enabling mobile sales from catalogs or flyers
* distributing coupons
* conference badges connected to profiles
* business cards connected to company sites
* signing up to text alert services
* running competitions
* connecting mix tapes to podcasts or vidcasts
* connecting posters to podcasts or vidcasts
* enabling community interaction at public locations

As the World Wide Web showed, things really take off when users build out their own real estate. The success of the Web was partly a result of the distributed development of local content and economies driven by individual passion. It’s happening all over again on the mobile web.

Additional information can be located here:

WINKsite: fusing the mobile and Web worlds through barcodes
http://cognections.typepad.com.....using.html

Mainstream America is Ready for Bar Codes - Converging “Realspace” and “Mobilespace”
http://harper.wirelessink.com/?p=83

Schemes to tag the real work make no sense whatsoever. How often have you personally walked down the street, seen a poster or ad, and thought to yourself, “I sure wish I could spend one minute photographing and uploading something via my cell phone so that this company can send me marketing info and add me to yet another e-mail/cell phone list?”

If consumers see something they care enough about, they can surf to it on their phones today. And, any marketer who wants consumers to get offers via their cell phones can easily instruct consumers to send an SMS message to a number that will auto respond. This is CueCat all over again–a solution looking for a problem.

Its cool, and their 2d bar code is one of the most aesthetic I have seen. In practice, though, it doesn’t have any error recovery or even a checksum, so I wonder how well it would work on most American phones with a cheap .3 megapixel sensor.

Beyond the cool factor, though, it just isn’t practical. I don’t know about other people’s phones, but I would be able to enter the numbers faster than I would be able to upload the image.

I have seen similar things done with java on the phone, but all but the most recent phones don’t support the java api that is needed. Once Symbian hits North America, I hope someone comes up with an open source tagging app for it. Something that could store v-cards and URLs and be interpreted right on the phone. Proprietary tagging would probably not take off.

Won’t the Cuecat ever die? There is nothing Web 2.0 about this as it’s been tried and tried and tried ( i.e., http://www.paperclick.com/, http://www.colorzip.co.jp/en/marketers.html ). As I’ve said many times over the years, how hard is it to type in a URL — or as another commenter said, take a photo of a URL? Products that solve problems make sense — this is a gimmick that depends on an amazing number of moving parts to come together to work. The folks behind Cuecat raised and spent $250 million chasing the dream that advertisers would include a barcode on their ads that would lead consumers to a website. And now several tiny companies are competing with differing barcoding schemes. This is going no where slowly.

Pet Stroller Guy:

Re: “This is CueCat all over again–a solution looking for a problem.”

Hmmmmm. I’d like to see you convince the population of Japan where ‘QR Codes’ have become the door to the mobile Internet for the average mobile user’.

SMS is a good way to connect users to data while mobile, but worldwide there are drawbacks as you would need to purchase a shortcode in every country — doable by a major corp but not exactly feasible for re: cost or set up time for the small or individual publisher.

…why think only in terms of US market, “consumers” and “marketers” as the use case.

Camera phones are in 10’s of millions of hands, each one of them could potentially be a bar code reader — connecting people in everyday situations with information that is actionable or contextually important to them.

…and if you remember the “CueCat” you’re old enough to think of other examples when tipping points were reached and industries changed. Like when digital cameras hit 3.0 mexapixels and killed film.

total semapedia ripoff

What is the adoption rate in rest of the world (other than Japan)?

Regards,
Nag /at/
Startups.in

David,

In a world where consumers are actively rejecting advertising (Tivo, iPods, etc.) why would we as marketers suddenly think consumers will not only NOT screen the ad but actually take extra effort by snapping the image of a barcode and uploading it? If consumers think it is asking too much for them to sit through a 30-second ad on TV or view pop-up advertising on the Internet (both passive participation on consumers’ part), why would we think tags such as these would overcome consumers’ aversion to advertising and encourage them to proactively engage with the advertising?

I think this may have some merit as a promotions program where consumers get something in return for their actions, but the idea that adding barcodes on magazine ads, posters, and billboards will suddently make consumers want greater marketing engagement with brands seems pretty silly to me.

Lame - yet another 2d barcode (QR codes, semacode, shotcodes (http://www.shotcode.com/)). If the goal is to save phone users from entering long URLs, why not just use TinyURL (http://tinyurl.com/)? It converts any URL into few alphanumeric characters. But of course, using phone camera is much cooler than just starting web browser.

Look up http://semacode.org/

they tried to business ages ago with a similar idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuecat
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/.....00037.html

sweet cat.

Pet Stroller Guy:

Mytago has come up with their own format bar code and server to translate such. That approach no matter how it’s hyped will never be massively adopted.

Standard bar codes such as Datamatrix or QRCode and univeral readers are the way to go - not propriatary ones. In fact Nokia’s recently realeased bar code reader supports both the above.

I agree with you that uploading an image (and the individuals expense to do that) is not the way to go about it.

The bar code readers in Japan for example (installed on phones at the manufacturer level) do not require you to send an image to a server. The app translates the embedded URL on the fly then offers you the option to launch that URL in your mobile browser. Point. Snap. Launch.

I also agree that the “thing” at the end of the URL needs to be useful, compelling, or fun - and not just more unwanted advertising. That model will have no more success then the notion that consumers would want to be pushed coupons via SMS while they walking down the street.

I have an earlier post in moderation (contained 2 URL’s so no doubt the spam filter grabbed it) that provides a list of uses as i see them. I hope once that’s published to the thread you will see more clearly where my interest is.

Another “New Idea” thats DOA and VERY late. Like a couple of posts here say QR has been around for a long time. You have to see the business models formed around QRcodes for the past 5 years to understand how to make money from it. Maytago and Mozes are going nowhere………

It’s not too late because you have to wait until majority of the north American people get used with mobile phone and equipped with camera phone. Before this year, probably only Japan and Korea really have the market for semacode.

Imagine who will benefit from semacode - It’s probably not the web people. The whole concept of semacode would remind me of Anina - very detailed, styled and female. The kind of people who don’t really like to sit online with a laptop, instead they’re always on the go.

Korea already has such a fork of visually way better colorful semacode which can be published more gracefully on magazine with company logo in the center of it. Well, there could be so much more applications once the hardware is ready as right now, and very soon we’ll probably hear much more serious patent argument than now. Yet, it’s never too late to use it personally instead of/plus in advertisement.

http://www.grafedia.net and http://www.yellowarrow.net, something like mytago, and already there for one year. agree with michael, this kind of application seems more artistic than tech and business.

ReX - Re: “And now several tiny companies are competing with differing barcoding schemes. This is going no where slowly.”

I agree but the focus should not be on copycat companies like Mytago with the business fantasy that their differing barcoding schemes will be adopted. The focus shouldinstead be on companies who are using existing open standards to drive adoption and realize benefits. We have reached a point where the scanner (camera phone) is ubiquitious, universa readers are available (Nokia and others), and standardized bar code formats and tools exist so that anyone can publish bar codes and connect “things” to them. This makes things a bit more interesting.

Oh, and to all who mentioned how each it is to enter a URL on a phone - it’s really not for the majority of everyday users (those without the luxury of a smartphone/pda.) Have you ever tried figuring out where to enter a URL on the Verizion service. Have you tried taping in a URL with “/”s and such? Not an easy or simple experience. And if the URL is even a bit dynamically generated forget it - too long. Pushing a URL via a SMS or translating a URL from a bar code is so much quicker and easier for the “masses.” This opinion is from testing on various phones and services over the course of several years.

Part of the disconnect on this topic might be from the fact that broadband users think about bar codes from the perspective of mobile being an ancilliary service to desktop experiences. For the majority of the world a mobile phone is their primary on ramp to the internet, the knowledge it contains, and to each other. From the perspective of the mobile user being a first class citizen these types of real to virtual connections take on a whole different meaning and are important.

…and services like semapedia.org, grafedia.net, and yellowarrow.net (mentioned by others) that are enabling non-commercial bar code and SMS services care very much about bringing mobile technology down to the everday person, everyday useful level.

There is a similar concept : http://www.mobiletag.com/

A French free magazine named Newbiz is trying to launch the thing in France, putting tags everywhere, but the process is so awkward (downloading an app, taking a picture and sending it just to save a few key press does not make any sense) that they might as well just put the plain URL on the page. It might save a few cm² of page estate, too…

Regards,
Nicolas

Notwithstanding whether or not mytago is a winner, I think at the heart of this is the collision of the physical and the metaphysical/digital world. It sets the stage for true “doing more with less” which leads to the best profit levels possible in business.

I’ll be watching this one!
Chris Venn

Just posted this on our official blog in response to the many interesting and relevant comments about mytago:

http://www.mytago.com/blog/ind.....521-151108

There were obvious comparisons to existing barcde systems like QR Codes and Semacode and even to cuecat which was very different (special hardware, not wireless, users can’t create tags).

Mytago may look similar to other bar code systems, since we also use a 2D bar code. But we differ from other systems in our usage model.

We have no special requirements from the user on the mobile phone side.

+ Will work on any mobile phone with camera
+ Even without camera the 12 digit code can be used with SMS/Email
+ No software to install on the phone
+ No extra data connection charges on phone
+ The phone is used only as a bookmarking tool.

All the user interactions fit nicely into the existing familiar web application whermework, the users are already comfortable with.

+ Explore the collected bookamrks on the phone at your home when you are free
+ Can share and discuss the bookamrks with others
+ No need to use the slow and feature limted browser on the phone

We also makes it easy for anyone to create a new tag. All you need is your PC and printer.

Not many comments about our visual branding ( the logo and color ) of the tag image, this subtle branding makes the tags more personal and differentiates from other bar code systems. And works well with our HTML badges for the tag to put on your blog or website with the same visual branding as your tag design.

The first thing I thought of was Cuecat–which someone above mentioned already. It failed miserably… Obviously this is easier to use, since it requires no special hardware, but it strikes me as just as clunky and similarly silly.

The killer barcode app is allowing consumers to use their mobile phone to respond to a call-to-action on an advertisement. Europeans are used to purchasing content via premium SMS like this: “Text RING1 to 44444 to buy Candy Shop”. The next best thing is to snap a barcode.

Paperclick rolled out “QR code style” service in Europe and is looking to do the same in the US. They spent the R&D to create an app that works on many, many devices. However, they still have a “chicken-and-egg” problem. Carriers won’t support them until there people publish codes and people won’t publish codes until there is an audience to respond to them.

Check out paperclick here:

http://paperclick.com

As previous comments have noted, QR codes have been accepted by Japanese mainstream mobile phone users (and as importantly, by handset vendors) as a handy way to get data onto a phone. Lots of real world applications are already here. Posters, print advertising, etc. For most users, entering a URL takes a significantly larger effort than taking a photo of a 2D barcode or similar.

At the current stage of mobile phone development, I think a key factor is adoption by handset manufacturers. A wide base of pre-installed software is pretty much critical.

The (business) problem with QR codes is that the system is open (Denso-Wave owns the patents but does not exercise any commerical rights), and therefore anyone can use it.

Any alternative system vendor attempting to make money needs to have a significant added value.

One of the benefits of QR codes (the amount of data which can be inserted) is also potentially a weakness which can be exploited by new entrants. The amount of data which needs to be put into a QR code (even a Micro QR code) means that the barcode is a intricate 2D image which requires a decent amount of camera resolution to be read.

A previous comment has highlighted one potential solution, Korea’s Colorzip. This is a 2D 4-colour coding format, and because each position can express any of 16 bits compared to QR code’s 2 bits, the required code can be simpler. Japanese broadcasters TBS and Fuji (and Dentsu.com, the VC arm of Dentsu, Japan’s largest ad agency. Disclosure: Our firm is also an investor) are investors in Colorzip Japan because their test have shown that QR codes are were not suitable for display on a TV screen (a useable QR code on the screen takes up too much space - display resolution issues are no doubt a factor), whereas Colorzip codes are require less space to be sucessfully implemented. Colorzip also claims to allow more flexibility in visual design. Colorzip has been going in Korea since before the last World Cup, where its code where featured on tickets.

Colorzip and others players are not going to displace QR code based systems completely (mainly because QR code is free) but a commercial alternative does have its merits in certain applications.

Hi All:

As Mark and others have pointed out B&W QR codes are ‘everywhere’ here over for the last 4 years.. anyone wanna see the Color-Zip evolution?

We shot this demo. video at their Japan office May 2005:
http://www.wirelesswatch.jp/mo.....p;sid=1469

Also had presentation at Mobile Monday Tokyo (.ppt available free online) on April 18th 2005:
http://www.mobilemonday.jp/?p=2

Cheers!

After reading all the comments from other readers, i realize that their analysis is blinded by their ignorance of the real business world.
I am a retailer and restaurant owner, and i see real business opportunities (for both businesses and consumers), in implementing this technology in the future…
I am working on a new application that would consider this kind of real world capability…

Reading through the site and the comments here, I still don’t get it. How are scannable tags better than just writing down (or taking a picture of) an URL?

You obviously underestimated the power of simplicity. When we have reach an age of information and drama overload, even reducing one click to a task is good enough a selling point. A scannable tag simply means taking away the relevance of a physical URL. The truth is URL is only meaningful to computers, humans are just putting up with it coz we have to. If I see an ad on a bus passing by and I’d like to visit the site, I’d love to be able to just take my phone, aim, click and reach the site. I hate to have any URL getting in the way in the process.

Having just signed up to try out the Mytago service I found that this application is very limited. Right now one is supposed to take a picture of a code then transfer it to you PC and then upload it to the MyTago website. This seems like quite a hassle rather than writing it down. This does not promote simplicity as some folks had claimed.

If one is using a computer with a Keyboard, a URL is satisfactory. However, with cell phones there is a need for code scanning capabilities using a camera phone.

Some folks above have suggested industrial code formats such as QR and data matrix. However those codes are designed for dedicated hardware not standard camera phones. Also the supported applications are limited.

I encourage people to check out http://www.ConnexTo.com where you can create mCodes. This site is designed for standard camera phones and supports not only URLs but also SMS, Phone numbers, and contact information.

::Cough:: Been there done that with the Xenote iTag - Tag everything!! and the CueCat. ::Cough::

And, well, isn’t Mozes and Qtag trying the same thing as well?

I will make a bet with anyone that these guys raise at least $1MM on this obsolete and useless app.

The one thing that has not been brought up here is that NeoMedia Technologies (Parent to http://www.paperclick.com) owns the patents and IP to linking real world barcodes to the internet. I worked for NeoMedia back in 2000-2001… these guys are the toll booth than anyone getting into the barcode-to-net space will need to pay (the CueCat parent company licensed the technology from NeoMedia for tens of millions - before they took the dive). They have already pursued and won courty cases policing their IP.

NeoMedia is making a strong play for this space by partnering by acquiring players in the space and building JV’s with agencies that represent big brands with an apetite for new ways to reach people - the real fight is for pocket space here folks, not desktop space. I expect these two companies will eventually cross paths.

NeoMedia patented the technology behind camera phone barcode scanning a decade ago and they are in current litigation with ScanBuy, who saw their copyright infringement charges against NeoMedia dissmissed last year. Currently NeoMedia’s Patent Infringement suit against ScanBuy remains pending and will undoubtably be upheld later this year.

NeoMedia has thus far won copyright infringement cases brought against Virgin Entertainment, LScan, and AirClick.

ScanBuy
http://www.neom.com/press_rele.....051019.jsp

LScan
http://www.neom.com/press_rele.....051019.jsp

Virgin
http://neom.com/press_releases/2005/20050629.jsp

AirClick
http://neom.com/press_releases/2005/20050712.jsp

NeoMedia … Respek !!!

Even I am working on a cosmetics reviewing startup website, I have spent weeks studying the QR code and Chinese stanards. It is clear that the Wireless + Internet will be a huge market in China, and the Label science can be a good entry.
For years, this techonolgy used in Japan, Korea, Taiwan. It connect the online information, Portable termials, and physical items/stores together.
However, the technolgy will not be a problem in China, but the marketing and operation would be hard.

Jim:

AFAIK there is no special harware, other than the camera, required.

The QR code reader is a SW app. (Java or brew) that was freely available to download for years before the Jpn. telcos started shipping their handsets, in 2003, with that function pre-installed.

Jeff,

What do you think about Ms. Barbara’s comments?
http://www.littlespringsdesign...../#comments

Ms. Barbara says:
“I have to make a few notes about the business, before I can comment on the design. First, Neomedia claims it holds the patent for scanning a bar code and using it to connect to the Internet (or something like that). Thus, they either have licensed to ScanBuy, or will end up sueing ScanBuy at a later time. I wonder about the business sense of the former option for a small relatively unknown company licensing to another, so I assume that we have a pending lawsuit - that Neomedia will intiate once ScanBuy gets significant leverage.

On the other hand, Neomedia has been acquiring a lot of companies recently. Merging companies takes a lot more than simply signing a document, particularly when you want to combine technologies, products, and practice in a way that generates the oft-cited “synergies”. This makes me think that life inside Neomedia is at best disorganized right now, so they won’t be able to do much more than maintain status quo while they figure things out - and that is likely to take them mostly out of the innovation picture for the next year or so. Of course, next year we may start seeing very interesting things.

From a user experience perspective, ScanBuy looks pretty interesting. They have more visible products. It appears (but I have no proof) that their technology will work slightly better. They have a broader variety of applications, and can thus do more with the same bar code - instead of one company owning the bar code, ScanBuy uses the bar code scanning simply as text input. For example, the “Your Pet” game requires you to “feed” your pet by scanning products. Silly, but similar to several successful iMode applications. PaperClick, on the other hand, has one mapping for a particular bar code. This moves all the intelligence to the server.

If both companies had presence on a single device, PaperClick would be seen as advertising, whereas ScanBuy would be more focused on what the user wanted to do. The suite of ScanBuy applications would provide more options, but also more complexity. “

Is mytago.com a winner. YES! Physical world applications are getting alot of attention right now. I will agree that it is not going to happen over night but this is a very viable solution.

If i can simple take a picture of the tag and whola! That interests me. I dont have to open my web browser, read the tag for the address, make sure it right cause if its not I would probly just walk away.

Another thing is about building behavior. If you have just one interface, one process, etc for the majority of your products… Thats a winner.

I think you will see some very interesting applications coming in the mobile space… some will work… some will be duds. but mobile is upon us!

p.s. Carriers are going to be a huge factor in how quickly adoption occurs because currently their approach seems motivated by greed.

The key is to connect precise databases of products and services (the physical world) information as it relates to each barcode (irrespective of which code is used)! That then allows for more precise product search, comparison shopping, and product publishing functionality using one’s mobile handset. It might be said that whichever code has this built in precision has a competitive advantage in making its code technology the global standard.